I have no idea what they requested. It's incredibly tempting to email my regional rep and ask how my facility is getting screwed with no target increase. Sure that would go over well. Obviously my ATM and Fac Rep dont know how to play the game well and make up positions that don't actually get worked.
CRWG
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There was no process to request a specific number increase. It was a survey of the operation in its entirety, in 30 minute blocks, conducted by the Facrep and ATM.
ChuckNovember
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Am I reading it right that ZOA lost people?
Acquired Taste
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Was whatever the FacRep and ATM said just taken and face value and not verified at all? Because it sure seems like that way.
All 313 submissions were audited by the National leads and they decided what the new crwg would be with the help of Mitre.
Acquired Taste
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I have to call bullshit on that. At my former small up down, my facrep and ATM straight up lied about what was needed on our "90th percentile busy day." They say we needed 1 local and 1 radar position all day which is true. Then they said we needed a standalone CIC and Radar Associate for like 8 or 10 hours of the day. Radar Associate was NEVER opened outside of training to get the mins for certification and even that was unnecessary bullshit. And standalone CIC? Why are we calculating staffing based on supervisory duties. If the agency wants a standalone CIC, hire a supe to actually do the job. Anyways, the new numbers came out and the new crwg is 21.
Meanwhile, our neighboring facility that is the same level, same type, and same exact hours was honest on their survey. They said 1 local and 1 radar position all day as well but that's it. Their tower and approach are slightly busier than ours was too. Their new crwg number is 13.
That isn't just a tiny discrepancy. That's one facility saying they need 61% more bodies to work less planes. That's just my one little anecdote of what I know for a fact happened but it makes me believe a lot of these numbers are complete bullshit that could be completely fabricated by whatever the rep and atm wanted to make up.
Well the survey wasn’t about what positions were actually used in the past it was about what positions would be used if staffing wasn’t a factor. But yes lots a facilities put in different numbers. CICs were included. It’s a job requirement? Idk
Just a bit frustrating to see every Tower only of the same level go up and ours remains the same. It's not like those facilities are working more traffic than us unless ATADS is way off. I'm assuming they have extra positions they claim to staff but don't. That's what my last facility did and it increased their numbers by a large amount last time and increased them again this time. What's crazy is that facility is already working hour on hour off.
Acquired Taste
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Staffing wasn't a factor. When we had 13 CPCs, we had 4 or 5 on a shift running 2 hours on, 2 off. I guess the could've collaborated and said they would like to split off ground and fd/cd if staffing wasn't a factor and gotten the crwg number up to 30. The point being there was no accountability in verifying the needs of these facilities if you can have 2 identical facilities arrive at 2 wildly different crwg numbers.
And yes, CIC is part of the job to "when necessary, supplement the supervisory staff." It's not meant to be built into the target numbers to staff a standalone CIC for the whole day. We were more than capable of working CIC and our 2 planes on the scope concurrently.
StuckInOhio
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I will also chime in and say my facilities numbers are absolute bullshit and actually hilarious.
Our number was already inflated for no reason and it’s going even higher than I ever would have imagined. We work no traffic 90% of the day, we don’t even have the positions to staff at our current number.
We sit around and stare at each other for 8 hours a day, it’s an absolute waste
Our number was already inflated for no reason and it’s going even higher than I ever would have imagined. We work no traffic 90% of the day, we don’t even have the positions to staff at our current number.
We sit around and stare at each other for 8 hours a day, it’s an absolute waste
This is exactly what my previous facility did and they got their numbers increased twice.
32andBelow
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Congrats everyone now you are 70% staffed instead of 80% staffed. We did it. Now you def can’t transfer ever.
ChuckNovember
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You are missing the point entirely. Imagine all the article 114 duties to be had if we ever hire this many people!
Dontbotherme
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Well now it validates that the Agency is better off spending overtime money and working employees into their graves versus spending $9B more over the next ten years to staff facilities with more controllers.
By design
ManBearPig
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FightingIrish2012
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I think they left that 13 facility alone because it’s about to be 804ed. Other facilities in those plans stayed the same or had very slight increases.
Acquired Taste
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Both are getting 804'd
hpwjuicebox
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Never thought about that. Must suck for all those people sent to high level tracons out of the academy.
They haven’t really sent AGs to high level tracons in 7ish years.
