EV Chargers at facility

Acquired Taste said:
I'm not ok with any subsidies for any industries. Fuck the farmers. Fuck the microchip makers. Fuck the guy who lives on the mountain in the middle of remote Alaska that has a post office down the street where he can mail a letter anywhere for 63 cents. Fuck the airlines, especially the remote communities who need subsidized "essential air service" for regular commercial service so they don't have to drive 2 hours to a real airport. Fuck the banks. Fuck them all. Let the free market decide what to produce and what it costs.
Click to expand...
You must be an acquired taste
 
Acquired Taste said:
I'm not ok with any subsidies for any industries. Fuck the farmers. Fuck the microchip makers. Fuck the guy who lives on the mountain in the middle of remote Alaska that has a post office down the street where he can mail a letter anywhere for 63 cents. Fuck the airlines, especially the remote communities who need subsidized "essential air service" for regular commercial service so they don't have to drive 2 hours to a real airport. Fuck the banks. Fuck them all. Let the free market decide what to produce and what it costs.
Click to expand...

lol F em all. you musta wrote this song


🤡

32andBelow said:
Except pay me 6 figures to work for them.
Click to expand...

isnt it funny how so many anti-govt extremists have gold plated federal jobs, hour breaks, sick leave on demand, and are fat slovenly sedentary slobs?
 
AB19 said:
“the government shouldn’t do anything for the people”
Click to expand...
"I hate big corporations so much but I also think the government should steal money from citizens and dole it out to special interest corporations/groups that politicians want to buy votes from. The government should be in charge of picking the winners and losers."
Smitty said:
isnt it funny how so many anti-govt extremists have gold plated federal jobs, hour breaks, sick leave on demand, and are fat slovenly sedentary slobs?
Click to expand...
It's the only game in town. At this point, we'd be better off privatized. We'd probably be adequately staffed and compensated on par with pilots.
 
Acquired Taste said:
"I hate big corporations so much but I also think the government should steal money from citizens and dole it out to special interest corporations/groups that politicians want to buy votes from. The government should be in charge of picking the winners and losers."

It's the only game in town. At this point, we'd be better off privatized. We'd probably be adequately staffed and compensated on par with pilots.
Click to expand...


Lmao I think you need to compare notes with your RVA peers before trying to say that with a straight face.
 
Peter Gibbons said:
Lmao I think you need to compare notes with your RVA peers before trying to say that with a straight face.
Click to expand...
No one would make a career out of this job if the compensation wasn't good. Those greedy CEOs running the airlines make the most money when more people take more flights. To maximize profits, they would have to maximize efficiency. The only way to do that regularly is to have an adequate number of competent controllers which requires a certain level of pay and benefits to attract. How many people would still make this a career if they were paid $35-$40/hour along with shitty leave, retirement, and insurance like they do at contract towers? The answer is not very many, which would kill the bottom line at airlines.

Also, by your logic, no one in America would ever make good money working for a company. Why don't hospitals, big tech corps, oil producers, etc just pay people like $25/hour? Why do airlines pay pilots so much? They must just love pissing potential profits down the toilet.
 
Acquired Taste said:
No one would make a career out of this job if the compensation wasn't good. Those greedy CEOs running the airlines make the most money when more people take more flights. To maximize profits, they would have to maximize efficiency. The only way to do that regularly is to have an adequate number of competent controllers which requires a certain level of pay and benefits to attract. How many people would still make this a career if they were paid $35-$40/hour along with shitty leave, retirement, and insurance like they do at contract towers? The answer is not very many, which would kill the bottom line at airlines.

Also, by your logic, no one in America would ever make good money working for a company. Why don't hospitals, big tech corps, oil producers, etc just pay people like $25/hour? Why do airlines pay pilots so much? They must just love pissing potential profits down the toilet.
Click to expand...

They aren't saying nobody would ever make good money doing any job. They are saying that there's a proven track record of private ATC paying less than government ATC, while not having benefits and half of their shift on break. Many people would do this job if the private sector could sign people off for CTOs and radar certifications. They would put out a job ad for 29/hr and have a revolving door of morons trying not to have a nmac every time on position. And when an accident happened they would use their legal power to make sure the employee is responsible, not the business who cut corners.

Hospitals do underpay lots of staff. Oil producers do underpay lots of staff. Big tech corps employees are laid off on a regular basis. Airline pilots for regionals were paid the same as McDonalds cashiers for decades. The highly skilled staff who have spent multiple years and hundred(s) of thousands of dollars in training get paid a lot. People who just need OJT (air traffic controllers) likely would not. Do you know how much it costs to become a dentist? 8 years post high school and a half a million dollars if you do it cheaply.

The government isn't "stealing" from you. You pay taxes so that society continues to exist and we can all reap the collective benefits. If you have a government job you benefit more than most. If you think you'd do better without a government go buy a sailboat and cast off to who gives a shit ✌
 
Somenewguy said:
They aren't saying nobody would ever make good money doing any job. They are saying that there's a proven track record of private ATC paying less than government ATC, while not having benefits and half of their shift on break. Many people would do this job if the private sector could sign people off for CTOs and radar certifications. They would put out a job ad for 29/hr and have a revolving door of morons trying not to have a nmac every time on position. And when an accident happened they would use their legal power to make sure the employee is responsible, not the business who cut corners.

Hospitals do underpay lots of staff. Oil producers do underpay lots of staff. Big tech corps employees are laid off on a regular basis. Airline pilots for regionals were paid the same as McDonalds cashiers for decades. The highly skilled staff who have spent multiple years and hundred(s) of thousands of dollars in training get paid a lot. People who just need OJT (air traffic controllers) likely would not. Do you know how much it costs to become a dentist? 8 years post high school and a half a million dollars if you do it cheaply.

The government isn't "stealing" from you. You pay taxes so that society continues to exist and we can all reap the collective benefits. If you have a government job you benefit more than most. If you think you'd do better without a government go buy a sailboat and cast off to who gives a shit ✌
Click to expand...
Privatized ATC would have an incentive to run a safe operation. If a mid air collision occurred as a direct result of an incompetent controller, confidence in the safety of the system would be eroded, people would stop flying, and profits would fall drastically. There is a profit motive for all the airlines to keep the skies safe and efficient and that would involve hiring competent people and retaining them for an entire career as high turnover, especially in a job that takes multiple years to train new hires, is extremely costly. To hire competent people, you need to pay a wage that entices them to work in this career field. Otherwise, they'd just work in a field that pays well enough for a high quality of life. If people are competent, ATC won't be their only employment opportunity.

Contract towers can pay what they do because that's what the laws of supply and demand dictate they can pay still attract enough qualified people that can staff the tower. I'm honestly surprised they can get people to work in these towers in bumfuck nowhere, and a lot times they can't. But to the extent they do, many contract tower employees are either too old to work in the FAA or they are younger people with experience using it as a stop gap while they wait to get into the FAA. There aren't enough people willing to do the job for contract tower pay and benefits to staff every tower, approach, and center. I tell people about this job and the current pay and benefits aren't enough to entice my friends with career aspirations to even apply.

And yes, while I generally believe that taxation, especially income tax, is theft, the subject was subsidies. It is morally wrong for the government to take money from me or anyone else and give it certain industries to offset their business costs. Centrally planned economies don't work. If there is a demand for something, the free market can and will balance out the price with supply. Here's another example of government subsidies gone wrong: The National Flood Insurance program. Long story short, the government subsidizes flood insurance for people who are typically well off (like people who own waterfront property in the Florida Keys) but don't want to pay the exorbitant premiums it would cost for an insurance company to write a flood insurance policy. Obviously the insurance company would be taking a big risk should a hurricane roll through town and a storm surge cause billions of dollars in damage to an entire town, much like Fort Myers recently. Because the insurance is subsidized, it is affordable to more people than it ordinarily would be in a free market and in turn, it encourages more people to build in flood/hurricane prone areas like near the beach.

Tl;dr No, I don't support the government taking money out of my pocket and giving it to well off people to buy a new Tesla and repair their beachfront house that continually floods
 
Acquired Taste said:
If a mid air collision occurred as a direct result of an incompetent controller, confidence in the safety of the system would be eroded, people would stop flying, and profits would fall drastically. There is a profit motive for all the airlines to keep the skies safe and efficient

.I tell people about this job and the current pay and benefits aren't enough to entice my friends with career aspirations to even apply.

And yes, while I generally believe that taxation, especially income tax, is theft, the subject was subsidies. It is morally wrong for the government to take money from me or anyone else and give it certain industries to offset their business costs. Centrally planned economies don't work. If there is a demand for something, the free market can and will balance out the price with supply. Here's another example of government subsidies gone wrong: The National Flood Insurance program. Long story short, the government subsidizes flood insurance for people who are typically well off (like people who own waterfront property in the Florida Keys) but don't want to pay the exorbitant premiums it would cost for an insurance company to write a flood insurance policy. Obviously the insurance company would be taking a big risk should a hurricane roll through town and a storm surge cause billions of dollars in damage to an entire town, much like Fort Myers recently. Because the insurance is subsidized, it is affordable to more people than it ordinarily would be in a free market and in turn, it encourages more people to build in flood/hurricane prone areas like near the beach.

Tl;dr No, I don't support the government taking money out of my pocket and giving it to well off people to buy a new Tesla and repair their beachfront house that continually floods
Click to expand...
1st-just no, people would still fly just like they do in other countries where planes have no doors and lawn chairs bolted to the floor.
2nd-profit and safety do not go hand in hand lmao. Have you ever listened to the airlines begging to put planes into thunderstorms?
3rd-if it was left to private sector eventually safety would degrade toa point where people demanded the government stepped in.
4th-air carriers CAN fly vfr. ATC isn't preventing the air carriers from going, it's literally gigantic storms.

That being said there are no incentives for good controlling-when a storm is developing do you run traffic until you can't anymore? Do you be proactive and stop taking handoffs? The real problem is we get paid the same amount whether we're a lazy scammed on detail or the guy that shuts it down. After years and years of no help from tmu, management, and a handful of dirtbags- I slowly feel myself turning into the dirtbag



Off topic for atc forum but we can go argue on that retarded greentext website for trumpers we need to let companies and people burn (2008 financial, flood insurance, etc) BUT in some cases (Ford) the government gets loans back with interest



taxation is not theft, I'm not going to argue your libertarian wet dream, taxes are required for society to function and uphold order
 
Acquired Taste said:
Privatized ATC would have an incentive to run a safe operation. If a mid air collision occurred as a direct result of an incompetent controller, confidence in the safety of the system would be eroded, people would stop flying, and profits would fall drastically. There is a profit motive for all the airlines to keep the skies safe and efficient and that would involve hiring competent people and retaining them for an entire career as high turnover, especially in a job that takes multiple years to train new hires, is extremely costly. To hire competent people, you need to pay a wage that entices them to work in this career field. Otherwise, they'd just work in a field that pays well enough for a high quality of life. If people are competent, ATC won't be their only employment opportunity.

Contract towers can pay what they do because that's what the laws of supply and demand dictate they can pay still attract enough qualified people that can staff the tower. I'm honestly surprised they can get people to work in these towers in bumfuck nowhere, and a lot times they can't. But to the extent they do, many contract tower employees are either too old to work in the FAA or they are younger people with experience using it as a stop gap while they wait to get into the FAA. There aren't enough people willing to do the job for contract tower pay and benefits to staff every tower, approach, and center. I tell people about this job and the current pay and benefits aren't enough to entice my friends with career aspirations to even apply.

And yes, while I generally believe that taxation, especially income tax, is theft, the subject was subsidies. It is morally wrong for the government to take money from me or anyone else and give it certain industries to offset their business costs. Centrally planned economies don't work. If there is a demand for something, the free market can and will balance out the price with supply. Here's another example of government subsidies gone wrong: The National Flood Insurance program. Long story short, the government subsidizes flood insurance for people who are typically well off (like people who own waterfront property in the Florida Keys) but don't want to pay the exorbitant premiums it would cost for an insurance company to write a flood insurance policy. Obviously the insurance company would be taking a big risk should a hurricane roll through town and a storm surge cause billions of dollars in damage to an entire town, much like Fort Myers recently. Because the insurance is subsidized, it is affordable to more people than it ordinarily would be in a free market and in turn, it encourages more people to build in flood/hurricane prone areas like near the beach.

Tl;dr No, I don't support the government taking money out of my pocket and giving it to well off people to buy a new Tesla and repair their beachfront house that continually floods
Click to expand...
"Privatized Railroad would have an incentive to run a safe operation. If a derailment occurred as a direct result of an incompetent conductor/inspector or faulty system, confidence in the safety of the system would be eroded, companies would stop shipping things by rail, and profits would fall drastically. There is a profit motive for all the rail companies to keep the tracks safe and efficient and that would involve hiring competent people and retaining them for an entire career as high turnover, especially in a job that takes multiple years to train new hires, is extremely costly. To hire competent people, you need to pay a wage that entices them to work in this career field. Otherwise, they'd just work in a field that pays well enough for a high quality of life."

1689086197092.png
1689086516405.png
1689086544625.png
 
If there was a reason for safety and capitalism to coexist osha wouldn’t exist either because surely the workers would just work somewhere that was safer instead of capitalism exploiting workers like it always has
 
Phillytroll69 said:
I'm not going to argue your libertarian wet dream, taxes are required for society to function and uphold order
Click to expand...
All That What GIF by chelsiekenyon


We can and do argue all day about the scope of taxation and where that tax money goes (subsidies included), but if your starting point is that all tax is theft, the invisible hand of the market controls things perfectly, and an economy that has some centralized aspects cannot function, you just aren't dealing in reality.
 
Acquired Taste said:
Contract towers can pay what they do because that's what the laws of supply and demand dictate they can pay still attract enough qualified people that can staff the tower. I'm honestly surprised they can get people to work in these towers in bumfuck nowhere, and a lot times they can't. But to the extent they do, many contract tower employees are either too old to work in the FAA or they are younger people with experience using it as a stop gap while they wait to get into the FAA. There aren't enough people willing to do the job for contract tower pay and benefits to staff every tower, approach, and center. I tell people about this job and the current pay and benefits aren't enough to entice my friends with career aspirations to even apply.
Click to expand...

Contract towers (like other govt contracts) have a wage dictated by the Department of Labor. This is required so that bidding govt contracts remain fair. However it isn't fair. A govt worker under the same contract in DC gets paid the same wage as a contractor in OKC.

My point is, if Midwest or what ever other ATC contractor wanted to pay more, they can't. Starting pay is determined by the DOL.

This all has negative consequences for FAA/DOD controllers. By controlling the contract ATC pay, you prevent them from being paid appropriately which in turn affects the FAA/DOD controllers from having an argument about competitive wages.

In short, contract tower employers have no say in what they pay their employees. DOL controls all govt contract pay.
 
Logical_Mongoose said:
"Privatized Railroad would have an incentive to run a safe operation. If a derailment occurred as a direct result of an incompetent conductor/inspector or faulty system, confidence in the safety of the system would be eroded, companies would stop shipping things by rail, and profits would fall drastically. There is a profit motive for all the rail companies to keep the tracks safe and efficient and that would involve hiring competent people and retaining them for an entire career as high turnover, especially in a job that takes multiple years to train new hires, is extremely costly. To hire competent people, you need to pay a wage that entices them to work in this career field. Otherwise, they'd just work in a field that pays well enough for a high quality of life."

View attachment 8620
View attachment 8621
View attachment 8622
Click to expand...
There's 387 million+ reasons why Norfolk Southern wishes it would have been safer/has a profit motive to improve safety in the future. And that's before the lawsuits for the families in the affected area are settled.

Comparing it to rail is an apples to orange comparison. Hardly anyone is traveling by rail in this country but commercial air travel is at or near the peak. Could you imagine if there was fiery chunks of metal raining down from the sky Breaking Bad style every other month with the news playing it on repeat? Demand to jump on a plane that could result in a fiery death would plummet, killing profits. Not to mention all the lawsuits from every family of the victims.

It's a shame how dependent on the government all of you guys have become to protect you from the big bad world. It's truly amazing anyone survived long enough to procreate for generations upon generations so you guys could live your lives so afraid that if the government doesn't regulate every aspect of your life, it would basically be the end times. Seriously, how did society get this far? Government wasn't always this overbearing and burdensome on the individuals lives.
Screenshot_20230711_110228_Samsung Internet.jpg
 
Things were better under serfdom idk why you guys are complaining it’s not like the king and queen demanded anything to be protected by them or to farm where the good farm land was taxes are just the worst I’d rather be threatened with murder or hunger.
 

Similar threads

DeltaBravo
C90 Training Failure
2
Replies
33
Views
5K
Dolan
D
A
Enroute Basics and struggling
Replies
10
Views
2K
BoeingAirbus
B
C
W-2
Replies
10
Views
3K
CF
CF
N
Moving after the academy
Replies
19
Views
2K
TangoFox
T
P
Decision Lens Agreement (DLA)
Replies
12
Views
3K
DADDYSbabyBIRD
D
Back
Top Bottom