Santa & Whitaker are negotiating a green Chri$tmas!

[Fat Porrey]

Have you looked up the definition of parity pay you are definitely not using that correctly

Pay parity is the practice of paying people equitably. This means that those in the same job and location receive fair pay relative to each other regardless of their race, gender, sexuality, or any other identity.

I think you’ve figured it out! My guess is the MOU will have something to do with paying ATC’s what they should get paid.

It really is a great name for a premium pay MOU.

 

[32andBelow]

I think you’ve figured it out! My guess is the MOU will have something to do with paying ATC’s what they should get paid.

It really is a great name for a premium pay MOU.

Make Atcs Getpaid Alot

 

[Fat Porrey]

I would expect an announcement next week after the holiday.

Is this confirmed or just speculating?

I wanna believe it true but my sources (I know a bunch of ppl on 114s and I work at a high level facility) aren’t giving me much. Do you know anything about the terms of the agreement?

 

[Top5fatcat]

Have you looked up the definition of parity pay you are definitely not using that correctly

Pay parity is the practice of paying people equitably. This means that those in the same job and location receive fair pay relative to each other regardless of their race, gender, sexuality, or any other identity.

No sir you are ignorant on this one. Stick to shitposting from Alaska and leave the bog boy shit to the big boys!

 

[FightingIrish2012]

Is this confirmed or just speculating?

I wanna believe it true but my sources (I know a bunch of ppl on 114s and I work at a high level facility) aren’t giving me much. Do you know anything about the terms of the agreement?


View attachment 9071

Not confirmed but I think it is looking real, or at least some aspects of it.

 

[Squirrel]

Sick whip, go check out the bread line?

 

[ATC Zero]

Not confirmed but I think it is looking real, or at least some aspects of it.

Any Thanksgiving news swirling around that we can all hope to be thankful for?!

 

[SunnyATC]

Your logic is that CTIs have more general knowledge than random people off the street... This is true I don't disagree...

Academy failures have more knowledge than CTIs... Do you disagree? If you disagree then on what premise?

If the academy failures from academy failures past have more general knowledge than a random CTI why would we not send them to facilities based on the same merit you are trying to justify?


Never the less my debated point stands... if a CTI is qualified to go to the facility because they have general knowledge then make the academy pass/pass. Failure at the academy doesn't mean the individual would necessarily fail at the facility.

If they do end up taking the route of hiring CTIs or anyone for that matter to anything above a level 7 they need to allow people to freely move VIA NECPT first. Otherwise current controllers that are the most competent based of historic hiring trends are just getting rolled. That or for the Center guy on this forum who says "people are just mad the poors are narrowing the gap with the 5%" Make ATC pay linear ATC regardless of level of facility just get paid the same... Everyone gets paid 130-140K and no one makes 80K or 210K. I Think the latter is an utterly stupid approach but i'm sure the guy who this ATC is overpaid would be fine with it...

Current CPCs have been getting rolled by NCEPT for years. No movement from mid level facilities to higher. Look at the last list. Almost all low level tower to desirable high level facilities. Send new hire to the mid levels and staff them as well. At the airlines if they have unfilled vacancies after a bid then new hires backfill.

 

[Wizard]

Current CPCs have been getting rolled by NCEPT for years. No movement from mid level facilities to higher. Look at the last list. Almost all low level tower to desirable high level facilities. Send new hire to the mid levels and staff them as well. At the airlines if they have unfilled vacancies after a bid then new hires backfill.

Instead you get previous experience hires going to facilities that have 50+ ERRs in

 

[CaptainObvious]

They should allow everyone at mid-high level facilities that has an ERR in to move, then backfill those with CPCs that want to be at those facilities, and only then fill the gaps with prior experience.

 

[DidYouDoYourNATPRO]

They should allow everyone at mid-high level facilities that has an ERR in to move, then backfill those with CPCs that want to be at those facilities, and only then fill the gaps with prior experience.

FAA will continue to push level 5 tower controllers into level 12 radar facilities and fill the rest of the vacancies with CTI grads, leaving mid level facilities out in the cold. Tell me I'm wrong

 

[Wizard]

FAA will continue to push level 5 tower controllers into level 12 radar facilities and fill the rest of the vacancies with CTI grads, leaving mid level facilities out in the cold. Tell me I'm wrong

You’re not wrong at all.

 

[SNHU]

They should allow everyone at mid-high level facilities that has an ERR in to move, then backfill those with CPCs that want to be at those facilities, and only then fill the gaps with prior experience.

Sounds something along the lines of what cryhavoc478 suggested:

We can all agree ncept is broken, half the posts on this forum are complaining about how broken it is but there seems to be a lack of ideas in how to fix it. I personally believe the placement system from the academy is also to blame and needs to be redone as well. This post is not to blame Mick or Santa or anyone else for the current issues, but to simply suggest an improvement.

The current plan out of the academy seems to be to place trainees at facilities that are short staffed, without considering why those facilities are short staffed. There are plenty of CPC's sitting at low level facilities that arent getting academy graduates, and are not able to release people either. All this is occuring while some facilities are getting multiple trainees a year, and are able to release as well. The ncept plan of allowing CPC's who can move to move into facilities they dont want to go to, while other CPC's are sitting at facilities they dont want to be at and cant release, so they cant get where they want to go is not working.

What if the placement out of the academy sent trainees to level 4,5 and 6's that are under 90% staffed only. The logic here is if you are at 90% and not releasing, clearly your CPC staff is happy and does not want to leave, so why would we send trainees to that facility. Send 1 trainee to each facility at a time, then restart the list over. Currently there is about 90 4,5 and 6's that fit this criteria. If OKC graduated 10 (terminal students) every two weeks, this would give each facility a new trainee every 2 months. If you consider a 50% failure rate in OJT, this would equate to 3 new CPC's per facility a year. These numbers are relatively conservative, as most classes are graduating more than 10, and most facilities have better sucess rates than 50%. This would allow 4,5 and 6's to release someone every ncept a year or so after this plan would be implemented.

To fix ncept, allow transfers only 3 levels higher than current facility on the first move to a level 7 or higher. As an example, a 4 could release to a 7, a 5 to 8 and a 6 to 9. After the first transfer above a 7, the CPC can transfer to any facility level they desire. If you cap moves at 3 levels for the first move, level 7, 8's and 9 would also get an influx of people and allow them to begin releasing people. On the second necpt move, the CPC can move from a 7 to a 9 if they wish. Another thing this would solve under this idea, is a CPC would not be able to go from a 4, to a 6 that is eligible for academy graduates then jump straight to a 12 because they did not break through that level 7 ceiling. Ncept also would not be based only on the receiving facilities percentage but would consider the CPC's time at the current facility. To allow a less senior CPC move to a facility before a senior CPC just because the less senior is willing to go to somewhere the senior is not willing to go is not fair. This forces senior CPC's to move to facilities they don't want to be at, or to stay at some shit low level facility for years.

Additionally, if a CPC wants to go to a lvl 4, 5 or 6, and is willing to sign a contract saying they will go to that facility and work for a set number of years after obtaining CPC at that facility, they will receive a priority transfer. Under this, the CPC will not be eligible to move for any circumstances, not even under a hardship. This will allow people who want to go to a low level facility for whatever personal reasons they have. Additionally this will put a senior individual in the tower so you have some experience individuals still working the lower levels.

After the plan is in place, you can identify any hard to staff level 7's, this would be evident by an extreme lack of ERR's to the facility. The only facility I can think of top of my head would be Fairbanks AK as a facility no one would want to ERR into, so leave them eligble for academy graduates as well.

This plan would admittedly stalemate ncept for probably a year, as the flow up of staff got through the lower level facilities into the higher levels but would cause an influx of movement within 2-3 years. This prevents people from going from a 4 to a 12, so trainees are more prepared for the higher levels because they have had obvious steps of progression through the facility levels. Imagine if right now, you could all but guarantee that within the next 12 months your facility would get a minimum of 3 cpc's, and be able to release 3 through ncept in the next calendar year. The issue isnt just lack of staff and hiring more, its how you utilize the staffing you have and its clear the FAA does not understand how to utilize staffing.

 

[cryhavoc478]

Sounds something along the lines of what cryhavoc478 suggested:

Ah yes it does, however according to some we’ve already demanded change and FAA/NATCA did nothing so we should never try again.

 

[FightingIrish2012]

Can’t wait for work next week to see if anything breaks on this. You would think NATCA would have to address it. Even if it turns out it was all bullshit there have been the campaign videos and rumors of the NEB negotiating new incentive pays for months. I would think they have to give some type of update.

 

[Nothanks]

Can’t wait for work next week to see if anything breaks on this. You would think NATCA would have to address it. Even if it turns out it was all bullshit there have been the campaign videos and rumors of the NEB negotiating new incentive pays for months. I would think they have to give some type of update.

They don’t have to address anything. You also never give out any information if you are working on something like this. Never give up your cards.

 

[Foppery&Whim]

Can’t wait for work next week to see if anything breaks on this. You would think NATCA would have to address it. Even if it turns out it was all bullshit there have been the campaign videos and rumors of the NEB negotiating new incentive pays for months. I would think they have to give some type of update.

They don’t have to address anything. You also never give out any information if you are working on something like this. Never give up your cards.

And we don't have to pay anymore dues starting January. NACTA wants to continue to have steak and booze then they need to pony up.

 

[FightingIrish2012]

And we don't have to pay anymore dues starting January. NACTA wants to continue to have steak and booze then they need to pony up.

I think January 2025 will be the biggest bloodletting ever for NATCA if base pay is not about 20% higher by then. 7% is assured with the January and June raise, if they can’t get the other 13% done by then they never will.

Plus it will have meant that company man Santa or maybe even Daniels was elected, but turned out to be no better.

Very good chance transfers and outside of the facility applications to TMU and Support Specialist will be suspended by then based on the new “safety” report recommendation and that the N90 consolidation will have been written into the new FAA Reauthorization and is the “law”.

If that don’t push people over the edge nothing will. Right now it makes literally 0% sense to be in NATCA if your retirement eligible, but those conditions would make it 0% sense period.

 

[Foppery&Whim]

I think January 2025 will be the biggest bloodletting ever for NATCA if base pay is not about 20% higher by then. 7% is assured with the January and June raise, if they can’t get the other 13% done by then they never will.

Plus it will have meant that company man Santa or maybe even Daniels was elected, but turned out to be no better.

Very good chance transfers and outside of the facility applications to TMU and Support Specialist will be suspended by then based on the new “safety” report recommendation and that the N90 consolidation will have been written into the new FAA Reauthorization and is the “law”.

If that don’t push people over the edge nothing will. Right now it makes literally 0% sense to be in NATCA if your retirement eligible, but those conditions would make it 0% sense period.

Can NACTA even do a mid cycle MOU for a pay raise increase? Like others have mentioned, it's all for naught if there's no funding available from Congress.

From a pay perspective, there is no reason to be part of NACTA starting next year. NACTA still has to collectively bargain amongst paid and non paying members.

I think dissatisfied members have better odds starting a rebel union with blackjack and hookers than being represented by a corpse.

 

[Fat Porrey]

They don’t have to address anything. You also never give out any information if you are working on something like this. Never give up your cards.

Which is why this all makes sense. Top5fatcat is one of the most connected posters on here (he’s at a top facility, he knows several RVPs, *and* he knows a bunch of ppl on 114s). So if he sniffed this out and the NEB is staying mum on it that means they just don’t want to blow up the big deal in the 11th hour! Wait til the ink starts to dry.

This year at thanksgiving I give thanks to RAZE WEN MVMNT and the tireless lobbying efforts they’ve made both at NATCA and on The Hill, and fhe likelihood that we’re gonna see the fruits of such labor, soon. We’re gonna eat, brothers and sisters…I know we’re all hungry (except boots and CoffeeIV ).