What do you want to see in the next contract and beyond?

[blarg]

Yeah regarding locality I think a new system needs to be in place. Locality makes sense in some areas but a system based on COL makes sense in others.
Currently if you work a maxi flex 40 you are required to work 5 days / 40 hours in a “basic work week” being on a rotating schedule I have yet to find something that defines basic work week however management takes it as Sunday-Saturday. So currently you can’t RDO swap a Friday with the following Sunday you can only swap it on the previous Sunday that falls in the same “basic work week”. OPM says maxi flex can do this but the CBA only says you can change hours/days within the week not within the pay period. Compressed schedules and people at FSS working maxi flex 80 are allowed to switch between any days in a pay period. I believe it should be re written to allow this to be done at our request. Currently the CBA is more restrictive than what OPM defines Maxiflex as.

We should get both locality AND a cost of living modifier.

 

[KiloZulu]

You fucked up by not getting enroute when you got hired. Rookie mistake. Now you have to watch those guys complain that 200k isint enough .

Yeah, someone needs to tell those guys at ZOA and ZNY that it's only about the money so they should just shut up and be happy.

 

[woodski]

I would like to see the agency have shutdown insurance to cover our salaries when we are forced to work during the numerous government shutdowns. Or a premium added to late paychecks (50%+).

 

[Deuce]

Fun fact: you only need to work 900 hours of OT at a RUS level 7 to make $200k. That same person told me I shouldn't put paperwork in to a level 12 because I could make just as much money here.....

I'm not willing to work 6 days a week for the entirety of my 25 year career. And now if you call out of your OT every week, you're placed on AWOL.

I'd love to see someone call their bluff with that AWOL thing, that doesn't make any sense you don't need leave on your rdo

 

[Spoony90]

You stuck because you can’t get selected? Or because you’ve been red for years?
The former is usually a ‘you’ problem. The latter is the National Release Policy.
You don’t need a new contract for that. Either party can back out of the National Release Policy

We been red since the birth of NCEPT. Many people are trying to leave but are stuck putting their lives on hold

I'd love to see someone call their bluff with that AWOL thing, that doesn't make any sense you don't need leave on your rdo

I was threatened with a sick leave abuse letter for banging on my OTs. Even after I told them I can work certain shifts on my OTs. I went to the no list. Still don’t know how I feel about it.

 

[WordsTwice]

There’s a lot of good examples in here but I’m curious how the negotiations work. Does anyone have any insight? If we ask for all these things how and why would the FAA agree

 

[Mike Kilo]

I was threatened with a sick leave abuse letter for banging on my OTs. Even after I told them I can work certain shifts on my OTs. I went to the no list. Still don’t know how I feel about it.

I’ve talked to people who have won that fight since you can’t be on sick leave on a day off but then they just get ya the next time you use real sick leave. We just can’t win. Idk how they would get away with AWOL.

 

[32andBelow]

There’s a lot of good examples in here but I’m curious how the negotiations work. Does anyone have any insight? If we ask for all these things how and why would the FAA agree

They get all the same benefits we get and all their sups get a percentage above what we are getting. If they played it right they could pressure the FAA from both sides. But natca likes to punish people who become sups instead of using them as plants

 

[Deuce]

I was threatened with a sick leave abuse letter for banging on my OTs. Even after I told them I can work certain shifts on my OTs. I went to the no list. Still don’t know how I feel about it.

Those letters are literally garbage but they can't code an rdo as AWOL, it's an empty threat

 

[Tater_Toad]

Full PCS for future AG and retroactive PCS pay for anyone that graduated after the covid shutdown. Guaranteed housing for 3 months for all AG

 

[ManBearPig]

They get all the same benefits we get and all their sups get a percentage above what we are getting. If they played it right they could pressure the FAA from both sides. But natca likes to punish people who become sups instead of using them as plants

It's funny you think the people at the top of the FAA give a shit about their supes.

You guys know what the first thing the FAA will propose when we go to contract negotiations? A reduced pay structure. They did it coming out of white book with Obama. Biden's weak ass won't help us out like Obama did.

 

[RazeWen]

It's funny you think the people at the top of the FAA give a shit about their supes.

You guys know what the first thing the FAA will propose when we go to contract negotiations? A reduced pay structure. They did it coming out of white book with Obama. Biden's weak ass won't help us out like Obama did.

Neither will the weak ass union 😂

 

[Move78]

It's funny you think the people at the top of the FAA give a shit about their supes.

You guys know what the first thing the FAA will propose when we go to contract negotiations? A reduced pay structure. They did it coming out of white book with Obama. Biden's weak ass won't help us out like Obama did.

Cuz he ain’t got a clue

 

[ATC123]

Which is in the same seniority list so you wait your turn and bid the job you want when you can hold it. Big brother NCEPT doesn’t hold 717 pilots in seat and let new hires go to the A350 captain. A lot of pilots stay in a smaller plane or FO to stay close to home or have a better schedule. A lot of parallels to be made that we are failing at. Delta would love for pilots to stay in the same plane their whole career. Union says hell no instead of cozying up to management and agreeing.

There's also not a bunch of Pilots who couldn't figure out how to fly the A350 in training so now they're flying the 717. If you fail training on an aircraft type at the airlines(rare) you don't get to go to a smaller aircraft type that pays less. Similarly, 99.9% of those current 717 pilots who go to the A350 will fly it, so it isn't as much of a gamble for Delta to put them through training.

We been red since the birth of NCEPT. Many people are trying to leave but are stuck putting their lives on hold

That sucks. But how many people were getting released prior to NCEPT? If you're red, your staffing really sucks and your ATM just let people walk out the door beforehand? Or are you one of those few facilities who have a Staffing Number that is too high and so you're artificially looking short-staffed and your new CRWG number will change that?

 

[32andBelow]

It's funny you think the people at the top of the FAA give a shit about their supes.

You guys know what the first thing the FAA will propose when we go to contract negotiations? A reduced pay structure. They did it coming out of white book with Obama. Biden's weak ass won't help us out like Obama did.

Then let’s hire the tsa union to rep us

 

[Spoony90]

That sucks. But how many people were getting released prior to NCEPT? If you're red, your staffing really sucks and your ATM just let people walk out the door beforehand? Or are you one of those few facilities who have a Staffing Number that is too high and so you're artificially looking short-staffed and your new CRWG number will change that?

From my understanding, Right before NCEPT, few became supes, few transferred out but what really hurt us was like 6 people retiring at once. When I first got to my facility we were 14/30 CPCs. We’ve also had hardships go out and some get picked up to be supes. We even had one center guy come here and be “in training” for like 6 years then withdrew and went back to the center. He never had intentions in certifying. Wasted everyone’s time lol

 

[GulfCharlie]

From my understanding, Right before NCEPT, few became supes, few transferred out but what really hurt us was like 6 people retiring at once. When I first got to my facility we were 14/30 CPCs. We’ve also had hardships go out and some get picked up to be supes. We even had one center guy come here and be “in training” for like 6 years then withdrew and went back to the center. He never had intentions in certifying. Wasted everyone’s time lol

Had TPA vibes here for a second.

 

[Dousand24]

Speaking of leave, there needs to be something to address the “early releases” that have consistently been granted to FAA employees before every holiday for years. Most controllers are inevitably excluded from these, and over time, it adds up to weeks of leave that we are missing out on. If there is an agency-wide early release, and your supe is unable to approve it due to staffing/work load, you should be entitled to 3 hours of annual leave, or a TOA at the very least.

Or pay increase for those hours like additional holiday pay.

 

[ClearanceClarence]

Or pay increase for those hours like additional holiday pay.

That’d work to. Really just anything.

 

[Logical_Mongoose]

I think there are going to be a lot of very disappointed controllers if this is the wish list... hate to be the realist. I'd gladly be wrong. But it is a contract negotiation, so what are you expecting to give up in order to gain any of this? Or do you think the FAA will just blindly agree to everything?

I think most of what you said is possible. What would we give up to get it?

There’s a lot of good examples in here but I’m curious how the negotiations work. Does anyone have any insight? If we ask for all these things how and why would the FAA agree

A real union doesn't negotiate on what they're willing to give up, they negotiate on what they're willing to fight for and what the economic harm that the lack of their labor can cause. NATCA isn't a real union, but it doesn't mean they can't behave similar to one when needed.

NATCA Contract Negotiator: *lays out details on demands for new contract and why stated demands are necessary*

FAA Contract Negotiator: "Well we can't/won't do most of these things. But, what are you willing to give up for some of these smaller items?"

NATCA Contract Negotiator: "If you aren't willing to negotiate in good faith then I believe we need to adjourn for the day and meet again tomorrow morning."

Questionable break room pizza appears at a core facility or a core cargo hub; afternoon shift is incapacitated and facility goes atc-0/limited leading to a 24-hour compression of delays and cancellations.

*Next Day*

NATCA Contract Negotiator: "Thoughts and prayers for all those impacted by the delays, cancellations, and loss of national GDP. Now, where were we?"


Rinse and repeat.