What do you want to see in the next contract and beyond?

[Logical_Mongoose]

When the Union was coordinating an illegal strike they didn’t even meet their goal for striking members. You actually think non-natca can coordinate a large job action? It sounds good. However, maybe it doesn’t need to be a nationwide thing, a few Core 30s could put the pressure on in today’s environment

I wholeheartedly believe you are correct in that it doesn't need to be (nor should it be) a nationwide thing. Enough sick leave to trigger staffing measures for one shift that would cause delays, cancellations, and missed delivery windows on cargo movement is all it would really take.

With how fragile the system is, it could probably occur with maybe ~5 people being incapacitated and no one answering their phone for OT. If that "coincidentally" happened during negotiations and during breakdowns in negotiations, does anyone really doubt it would only need to happen 3-5 times or so before NATCA negotiated a "gold" book for everyone?

Genuine question because I don't know: Does anyone remember/know what the exact trigger was during the shutdown that screwed over the entire eastern seaboard for roughly 6 hours and took an additional day to get back to normal from?

 

[HurryUpandWait]

Because they already conceded to an extension

Brother, that was how long ago and under different leadership. We all know in hindsight that was a mistake.

Let’s focus on the front windshield and what is about to be in the middle of the road

 

[32andBelow]

Brother, that was how long ago and under different leadership. We all know in hindsight that was a mistake.

Let’s focus on the front windshield and what is about to be in the middle of the road

We all knew it was a mistake at the time. So now the onus is on Natca to fix the mistake. Then people might be happier with the representation

 

[HurryUpandWait]

I wholeheartedly believe you are correct in that it doesn't need to be (nor should it be) a nationwide thing. Enough sick leave to trigger staffing measures for one shift that would cause delays, cancellations, and missed delivery windows on cargo movement is all it would really take.

With how fragile the system is, it could probably occur with maybe ~5 people being incapacitated and no one answering their phone for OT. If that "coincidentally" happened during negotiations and during breakdowns in negotiations, does anyone really doubt it would only need to happen 3-5 times or so before NATCA negotiated a "gold" book for everyone?

Genuine question because I don't know: Does anyone remember/know what the exact trigger was during the shutdown that screwed over the entire eastern seaboard for roughly 6 hours and took an additional day to get back to normal from?

Good question. I do know the NOTAM fault that shutdown the entire NAS should be used more frequently in the press.

We all knew it was a mistake at the time. So now the onus is on Natca to fix the mistake. Then people might be happier with the representation

 

[Phillytroll69]

We all knew it was a mistake at the time. So now the onus is on Natca to fix the mistake. Then people might be happier with the representation

I'd be happy with an email update other than here's a look back at all we accomplished followed by all the events I can't attend

 

[32andBelow]

I'd be happy with an email update other than here's a look back at all we accomplished followed by all the events I can't attend

You don’t like seeing 2 Natca members in suites 3 sizes to big next to a congressional intern wearing a t shirt?

today we met with the staff of the rep for North Dakota

 

[Move78]

Because they already conceded to an extension

We requested the extension

We all knew it was a mistake at the time. So now the onus is on Natca to fix the mistake. Then people might be happier with the representation

No you didn’t

 

[32andBelow]

No you didn’t

You don’t think people were mad when we didn’t negotiate with the Biden administration? No one even knew they were working on that. The reps didn’t even know

 

[Phillytroll69]

I wholeheartedly believe you are correct in that it doesn't need to be (nor should it be) a nationwide thing. Enough sick leave to trigger staffing measures for one shift that would cause delays, cancellations, and missed delivery windows on cargo movement is all it would really take.

With how fragile the system is, it could probably occur with maybe ~5 people being incapacitated and no one answering their phone for OT. If that "coincidentally" happened during negotiations and during breakdowns in negotiations, does anyone really doubt it would only need to happen 3-5 times or so before NATCA negotiated a "gold" book for everyone?

Genuine question because I don't know: Does anyone remember/know what the exact trigger was during the shutdown that screwed over the entire eastern seaboard for roughly 6 hours and took an additional day to get back to normal from?

It wasn't any sort of action or plan. A government shutdown means free leave and people used it.

If an email went out that said follow ALL rules for safety and try to keep planes on routes for your neighboring facilities that's all it would take.

You don't need to do anything other than your job extra safely. Instead of launching at 1:50 on a wake timer thinking he'll hit the point 10 seconds later, launch at 2 min 10 seconds to ensure it. 20 seconds is a minute every three planes. How many planes depart the big facilities?

Then the tracon takes over and LEAVES them on the sid FOR SAFETY. If not being able to shortcut means you need more minutes in trail between airports so be it.

Then the center takes it and LEAVES them on the route.

I mean at MOST 15-20 minutes is saved by 10 separate controllers working their butt off to expedite do the flow of traffic.

I get it that's our job. But the moment you hit that 2 hour make you better be filing grievances and asking for in trails for fatigue.

 

[inthrewtheoutdor]

I'll say it again, read Collision Course. There were many many successful slow down/safety plays/play by the book shifts that caused waves of delays at core 30s prior to the strike that got the government to wake up and give them what they needed.
It was pissed off, burnt out, underappreciated controllers who did it on their own then, and may eventually repeat itself soon.

 

[Logical_Mongoose]

It wasn't any sort of action or plan. A government shutdown means free leave and people used it.

If an email went out that said follow ALL rules for safety and try to keep planes on routes for your neighboring facilities that's all it would take.

I understand it wasn't an action or plan: I was genuinely asking because I didn't know how many absences it took to trigger that to happen. And something of that magnitude is all it would/should take.

 

[AB19]

No you didn’t

People were clowning on this for extending it past the Biden administrations first time on this very website

 

[Move78]

People were clowning on this for extending it past the Biden administrations first time on this very website

Yeah I don’t think I remember anyone defending the length of the extension. Seemed universally puzzling

 

[GulfCharlie]

Yeah I don’t think I remember anyone defending the length of the extension. Seemed universally puzzling

I second this, however the only defense I remember (as a fallible human) was that the extension was insurance against a potentially hostile administration.

 

[the inquirer]

I understand it wasn't an action or plan: I was genuinely asking because I didn't know how many absences it took to trigger that to happen. And something of that magnitude is all it would/should take.

The area that works arrivals into SFO is the shortest staffed at NCT. It would prolly only take 5-6 controllers to call in to make SFO non operational.

 

[Phillytroll69]

I understand it wasn't an action or plan: I was genuinely asking because I didn't know how many absences it took to trigger that to happen. And something of that magnitude is all it would/should take.

yeah a few key facilities had people on leave (A LOT OF PEOPLE)

that's why I don't think a govt shutdown will ever happen again until they amend the amendment that pays us the same

 

[HurryUpandWait]

I'll say it again, read Collision Course. There were many many successful slow down/safety plays/play by the book shifts that caused waves of delays at core 30s prior to the strike that got the government to wake up and give them what they needed.
It was pissed off, burnt out, underappreciated controllers who did it on their own then, and may eventually repeat itself soon.

And those job actions (among other things) led straight to PATCOs demise and the firing of 11,000+ controllers. PATCO got too cocky from those job action and lived in a false reality of their current times. They are affective to a certain point but playing with a slippery slope.

They pissed off the other AFL-CIO unions, Airlines, the APA, and of course the public and FAA. Which led to them being alienated other than paper statements for support.

 

[GulfCharlie]

And those job actions led straight to PATCOs demise and the firing of 11,000+ controllers. PATCO got too cocky from those job action and lived in a false reality of their current times. They are affective to a certain point but playing with a slippery slope.

They pissed off the other AFL-CIO unions, Airlines, the APA, and of course the public and FAA. Which led to them being alienated other than paper statements for support.

This right here. If APA had told their pilots not to fly because it was "unsafe" it would have brought the industry to its knees. I have also heard unsubstantiated (I stress this) rumours that Reagan essentially agreed to the 32 hour work week and a few other demands but that PATCO was out to prove a point. If only I had access to a certain safe...

 

[ncssailor]

I second this, however the only defense I remember (as a fallible human) was that the extension was insurance against a potentially hostile administration.

But then they set it up for another unknown time period. So it was void of any valid outcome in the future. A plain roll of the dice and now what they gonna do??? Endorse Biden early and pray he wins so they don’t look as bad.

 

[Kramer]

I was threatened with a sick leave abuse letter for banging on my OTs. Even after I told them I can work certain shifts on my OTs. I went to the no list. Still don’t know how I feel about it.

You got fear mongered