What do you want to see in the next contract and beyond?

[Acquired Taste]

I don't think I've seen it mentioned, but take away the top of the CPC band caps from anything lower than a 12. A lot of us are stuck in low level facilities that have downgraded over the years and have hit that cap years ago and the lump sum raise does nothing for us. It would maybe make it more bearable to be stuck somewhere low for years on end.

People would just go to a 12 and then find a way to get out to a chill low level facility where they can relax and make level 12 money.

 

[boots]

Not enough.

No, I’m genuinely curious what isint enough for you.

 

[AnyTrafficPleaseAdvise]

No, I’m genuinely curious what isint enough for you.

It doesn’t matter if I’m making $70,000 at a level 5 or $200,000 at a level 12. Our career has been losing purchasing power due to rampant Inflation and we deserve a raise. Do you disagree with that?

 

[boots]

It doesn’t matter if I’m making $70,000 at a level 5 or $200,000 at a level 12. Our career has been losing purchasing power due to rampant Inflation and we deserve a raise. Do you disagree with that?

The fact that you refuse to say you made over 200k last year is telling because you know it sounds ridiculous.

 

[AnyTrafficPleaseAdvise]

The fact that you refuse to say you made over 200k last year is telling because you know it sounds ridiculous.

I didn’t make over $200k. Let me guess, now you’re going to lecture me about how I’m a x% earner in the country and I should be grateful because there are a lot of people who wish they made as much money as me, right?

 

[GulfCharlie]

I didn’t make over $200k. Let me guess, now you’re going to lecture me about how I’m a x% earner in the country and I should be grateful because there are a lot of people who wish they made as much money as me, right?

 

[AnyTrafficPleaseAdvise]

View attachment 9215

Forgive me for my ignorance, but I dont know who this is

 

[GulfCharlie]

Forgive me for my ignorance, but I dont know who this is

Eternal President of the Republic Kim Il Sung to appropriate your overly generous capitalistic wages for the true working class. /sarcasm

 

[FightingIrish2012]

I didn’t make over $200k. Let me guess, now you’re going to lecture me about how I’m a x% earner in the country and I should be grateful because there are a lot of people who wish they made as much money as me, right?

If you are at a level ten plus facility you are not viewed as much of a priority to get a raise because you are making top 5-10% in the country earning (albeit with reduced purchasing power vs 2019).

Why do you think all the Santa and Mick videos talk about the level 4-6 facilities and name them by name? They are focused on fixing those whose wages are now not much better then any other full time professional job, and that’s where NATCA struggles to retain new hires. I would except to see tiered increases or incentives if we get anything. Big increases as the bottom, basically making the 4-6’s a level seven pay band.

Small increases for the 7-9’s just to keep them slightly above the newly created bottom tier. And even smaller or no increase for the 10+ facilities, maybe a one time 10% bonus or something like that.

 

[Eve]

People would just go to a 12 and then find a way to get out to a chill low level facility where they can relax and make level 12 money.

Except that's not what's happening. What's happening is we have been at a facility that was once a 7 and downgraded to a 5 and now at the top of the band and can't get out to get any other kind of raise. We have let 1 person go on Ncept since 2019. We have 1 more released this year that got picked up last year and who knows when the next person will get to go. We have had 5 resignations and 4 promotions in that same time period because the only way to get out is to quit or become a sup. Retention would be better if we could get raises.

 

[ncssailor]

Financial
A raise is an act of congress not a Contract

All govt employees get the same sick leave (13 I think) annual is a negotiation

Admin time? Get real...a telecommute day to do elms once a month that's scheduled might be realistic.

I think most of what you said is possible. What would we give up to get it?

Even if they raised the paybands 15% it wouldn’t be paid out all at once. Wouldn’t it just mean that more of the June raises actually go to the base vs a payout for everyone at the top of current pay bands….

 

[SunnyATC]

People would just go to a 12 and then find a way to get out to a chill low level facility where they can relax and make level 12 money.

That would be great. Let people move out of high COLA higher level facilities and make good money for the area you live in. Start somewhere lower level, transfer to a hub faculty to increase base pay, then transfer somewhere slower and chill for the last 10 years making bank? Seems like a good career arc for me. We should be fighting for our own QOL and earnings. Let the FAA misers worry about productivity and pay. They definitely don’t care about our well being.

 

[boots]

If you are at a level ten plus facility you are not viewed as much of a priority to get a raise because you are making top 5-10% in the country earning (albeit with reduced purchasing power vs 2019).

Why do you think all the Santa and Mick videos talk about the level 4-6 facilities and name them by name? They are focused on fixing those whose wages are now not much better then any other full time professional job, and that’s where NATCA struggles to retain new hires. I would except to see tiered increases or incentives if we get anything. Big increases as the bottom, basically making the 4-6’s a level seven pay band.

Small increases for the 7-9’s just to keep them slightly above the newly created bottom tier. And even smaller or no increase for the 10+ facilities, maybe a one time 10% bonus or something like that.

Basically this. Complaining at a 12 while raking in 200k+ is ridiculous. The only thing you should be complaining about is your shit staffing.

 

[ncssailor]

What I would give for OT worked to count directly towards your eligibility for the pension. Imagine if they looked at the time requirement to retire as hours worked instead of years worked.

This job is supposed to be 5 days/40 hours a week, which comes out to 2080 hours a year, or 52,000 hours over a 25 year career. Let’s say there’s someone who works 6 days/48 hours a week their entire career, which comes out to 2496 hours a year or 62,400 hours over a 25 year career. Those extra 10,400 hours is equal to five full years worth of 40 hour work weeks, meaning that poor guy crammed 30 years of work into 25 years of time. It would be nice if those 10,400 extra hours counted towards a 52,000 hour requirement for retirement, because that guy could retire after 20 years instead of 25, which is fair considering all the extra work, missed birthdays, shit sleep schedule, etc that guy had to go through. Of course this should include early call-in and holdover OT, not just full 8 hour shifts.

So many more people would be ok with, even eager to work overtime because they know every day of OT worked is one day closer to retirement. It would also incentivize the agency to hire more/staff better because the less OT they give out the more years they can get out of the workforce until people are eligible to retire.

It’s not something that can be negotiated through the contract but that would be a dream come true for anyone who works overtime, especially us folks forced to work 6 day weeks.

I like your thinking!
Simply allowing OT and premiums to be used in the highly 3 calculation would be a huge win too.

I don't think I've seen it mentioned, but take away the top of the CPC band caps from anything lower than a 12. A lot of us are stuck in low level facilities that have downgraded over the years and have hit that cap years ago and the lump sum raise does nothing for us. It would maybe make it more bearable to be stuck somewhere low for years on end.

💯this at that point they are all longevity raises and should be added to base pay.

That would be great. Let people move out of high COLA higher level facilities and make good money for the area you live in. Start somewhere lower level, transfer to a hub faculty to increase base pay, then transfer somewhere slower and chill for the last 10 years making bank? Seems like a good career arc for me. We should be fighting for our own QOL and earnings. Let the FAA misers worry about productivity and pay. They definitely don’t care about our well being.

Once they realize their Locality calculation would go to RUS and it would result in a pay cut more would think about that twice.

 

[SunnyATC]

So people complain about making 200k in a high COLA but wouldn’t want to transfer to a RUS and make 160k in a mid size city, better schools, no mids, and 5 day workweeks?

 

[hpwjuicebox]

So people complain about making 200k in a high COLA but wouldn’t want to transfer to a RUS and make 160k in a mid size city, better schools, no mids, and 5 day workweeks?

RUS doesn’t mean cheap my friend. It just means the jobs in the area pay like trash. It’s not COLA, it’s an adjustment for market wages.

 

[Acquired Taste]

Except that's not what's happening. What's happening is we have been at a facility that was once a 7 and downgraded to a 5 and now at the top of the band and can't get out to get any other kind of raise. We have let 1 person go on Ncept since 2019. We have 1 more released this year that got picked up last year and who knows when the next person will get to go. We have had 5 resignations and 4 promotions in that same time period because the only way to get out is to quit or become a sup. Retention would be better if we could get raises.

You guys will be just fine. 3 releases in the next 6 months after your 3 trainees check out. You have the biggest advantage to get out as the rep too.

That would be great. Let people move out of high COLA higher level facilities and make good money for the area you live in. Start somewhere lower level, transfer to a hub faculty to increase base pay, then transfer somewhere slower and chill for the last 10 years making bank? Seems like a good career arc for me. We should be fighting for our own QOL and earnings. Let the FAA misers worry about productivity and pay. They definitely don’t care about our well being.

Why wait for the last 10 years? Just transfer immediately, save pay, and make $150k working 120 ops/day at DAY.

 

[Phillytroll69]

Even if they raised the paybands 15% it wouldn’t be paid out all at once. Wouldn’t it just mean that more of the June raises actually go to the base vs a payout for everyone at the top of current pay bands….

It does, if you were at the top you'd be at the top still.
The 1.6 is the negotiated raise to make up for gs scale

 

[SunnyATC]

RUS doesn’t mean cheap my friend. It just means the jobs in the area pay like trash. It’s not COLA, it’s an adjustment for market wages.

You’re right. Give people options though. Upward mobility and the ability to move down when you want a better work life balance. Let people make choices and get somewhere they want to go. Reduce the constant training cycles. Once you transfer you have to stay for a certain period of time.

You guys will be just fine. 3 releases in the next 6 months after your 3 trainees check out. You have the biggest advantage to get out as the rep too.

Why wait for the last 10 years? Just transfer immediately, save pay, and make $150k working 120 ops/day at DAY.

Once you transfer you have to stay for a certain period of time. Exception for your first facility.

 

[Spoony90]

How about, if you’ve had an ERR in for “X” amount of years and you can’t progress your career cause of NCEPT (dumpster fire), your pay will go to the bottom of the band you’re trying to ERR to. It’s BS that my career has been sabotaged because of NCEPT. 8 years in and still at the same facility with no light at the end of the tunnel