What do you want to see in the next contract and beyond?

[AB19]

How about, if you’ve had an ERR in for “X” amount of years and you can’t progress your career cause of NCEPT (dumpster fire), your pay will go to the bottom of the band you’re trying to ERR to. It’s BS that my career has been sabotaged because of NCEPT. 8 years in and still at the same facility with no light at the end of the tunnel

So someone at a level 4 puts in for dfw and gets level 12 pay

 

[Spoony90]

So someone at a level 4 puts in for dfw and gets level 12 pay

There should also be ERR caps. I been at a level 8 up/down and it’s starting to feel like I’m never gonna progress in my career due to NCEPT.

 

[SunnyATC]

So someone at a level 4 puts in for dfw and gets level

So someone at a level 4 puts in for dfw and gets level 12 pay

I don’t think so. Top of whatever the new negotiated band is. There are a lot of people stuck at low level facilities and a lot of people stuck/burned out at high level facilities. Let people go and make their own decisions and get picked up on qualification. You want to chill, apply and get picked up at a low level facility and stay for 10 years.

 

[boots]

There should also be ERR caps. I been at a level 8 up/down and it’s starting to feel like I’m never gonna progress in my career due to NCEPT.

You fucked up by not getting enroute when you got hired. Rookie mistake. Now you have to watch those guys complain that 200k isint enough .

 

[AnyTrafficPleaseAdvise]

Basically this. Complaining at a 12 while raking in 200k+ is ridiculous. The only thing you should be complaining about is your shit staffing.

You fucked up by not getting enroute when you got hired. Rookie mistake. Now you have to watch those guys complain that 200k isint enough .

I worked just shy of 120 hours of OT at a level 12 and didn’t come close to $200k. The only people I know who break that threshold work a ton of OT, they’ve been in the facility for 10+ years, or they work in a high locality/CIP area. We had supervisors get 8% raises last year for making sure our elms are done, but I should be grateful for 5% I guess. We are all underpaid. End of story.

 

[AnyTrafficPleaseAdvise]

If you are at a level ten plus facility you are not viewed as much of a priority to get a raise because you are making top 5-10% in the country earning (albeit with reduced purchasing power vs 2019).

Why do you think all the Santa and Mick videos talk about the level 4-6 facilities and name them by name? They are focused on fixing those whose wages are now not much better then any other full time professional job, and that’s where NATCA struggles to retain new hires. I would except to see tiered increases or incentives if we get anything. Big increases as the bottom, basically making the 4-6’s a level seven pay band.

Small increases for the 7-9’s just to keep them slightly above the newly created bottom tier. And even smaller or no increase for the 10+ facilities, maybe a one time 10% bonus or something like that.

That would be like an airline giving raises to pilots at the regional jet level, but not giving raises to the 777 mainline captains because they’re in the 1% already. I understand upward mobility is different for them than us, but it’s the same premise and it doesn’t make sense.

 

[Spoony90]

That would be like an airline giving raises to pilots at the regional jet level, but not giving raises to the 777 mainline captains because they’re in the 1% already. I understand upward mobility is different for them than us, but it’s the same premise and it doesn’t make sense.

At least they have upward mobility. Thanks to NCEPT, I don’t have that.

 

[AnyTrafficPleaseAdvise]

At least they have upward mobility. Thanks to NCEPT, I don’t have that.

I agree. NCEPT is broken, and you’ll get no debate from me.

 

[Foppery&Whim]

Nobody is content with making the same amount of money every year whether you are at a mid-level or 10+. I want more money and I want other controllers to make more money, so we afford a second family, another boat, or that escort that was on casting couch.

 

[Eve]

You guys will be just fine. 3 releases in the next 6 months after your 3 trainees check out. You have the biggest advantage to get out as the rep too.

If only you knew the actual staffing situation here and not how we look on paper.

 

[PxM0712]

1. be able to RDO swap between days on the same pay period not just the same work week when working a maxi flex 40.
2. People traveling from OCONUS to academy for training should be allowed a rental car
3. Increase the cap for credit hours.
4. Sunday premium pay should cover the entirety of the weekends not just Sunday.
5. Provide a system that more accurately pays based of Cost of living as the current locality pay system doesn’t work in many areas

 

[SunnyATC]

That would be like an airline giving raises to pilots at the regional jet level, but not giving raises to the 777 mainline captains because they’re in the 1% already. I understand upward mobility is different for them than us, but it’s the same premise and it doesn’t make sense.

Regional airlines pilots have made huge gains relative to mainline the last 10 years. 200% raises, commuter hotels, retention bonuses, signing bonuses, captain pay as an FO, ect…

 

[32andBelow]

You fucked up by not getting enroute when you got hired. Rookie mistake. Now you have to watch those guys complain that 200k isint enough .

Most people aren’t making 200k…idk where you even got that idea

 

[Sassyquatch]

I worked just shy of 120 hours of OT at a level 12 and didn’t come close to $200k. The only people I know who break that threshold work a ton of OT, they’ve been in the facility for 10+ years, or they work in a high locality/CIP area. We had supervisors get 8% raises last year for making sure our elms are done, but I should be grateful for 5% I guess. We are all underpaid. End of story.

Fun fact: you only need to work 900 hours of OT at a RUS level 7 to make $200k. That same person told me I shouldn't put paperwork in to a level 12 because I could make just as much money here.....

I'm not willing to work 6 days a week for the entirety of my 25 year career. And now if you call out of your OT every week, you're placed on AWOL.

 

[AnyTrafficPleaseAdvise]

Regional airlines pilots have made huge gains relative to mainline the last 10 years. 200% raises, commuter hotels, retention bonuses, signing bonuses, captain pay as an FO, ect…

Bad example on my part. It’d be the equivalent of Delta giving 717 pilots a bigger raise than the A350 guys

 

[SunnyATC]

Which is in the same seniority list so you wait your turn and bid the job you want when you can hold it. Big brother NCEPT doesn’t hold 717 pilots in seat and let new hires go to the A350 captain. A lot of pilots stay in a smaller plane or FO to stay close to home or have a better schedule. A lot of parallels to be made that we are failing at. Delta would love for pilots to stay in the same plane their whole career. Union says hell no instead of cozying up to management and agreeing.

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

5. Provide a system that more accurately pays based of Cost of living as the current locality pay system doesn’t work in many areas

Locality isn't based on cost of living.

The rest of your suggestions are logical and good ideas. Although I'm not sure what precludes you from doing #1 today.

 

[Move78]

How about, if you’ve had an ERR in for “X” amount of years and you can’t progress your career cause of NCEPT (dumpster fire), your pay will go to the bottom of the band you’re trying to ERR to. It’s BS that my career has been sabotaged because of NCEPT. 8 years in and still at the same facility with no light at the end of the tunnel

You stuck because you can’t get selected? Or because you’ve been red for years?
The former is usually a ‘you’ problem. The latter is the National Release Policy.
You don’t need a new contract for that. Either party can back out of the National Release Policy

 

[PxM0712]

Locality isn't based on cost of living.

The rest of your suggestions are logical and good ideas. Although I'm not sure what precludes you from doing #1 today.

Yeah regarding locality I think a new system needs to be in place. Locality makes sense in some areas but a system based on COL makes sense in others.
Currently if you work a maxi flex 40 you are required to work 5 days / 40 hours in a “basic work week” being on a rotating schedule I have yet to find something that defines basic work week however management takes it as Sunday-Saturday. So currently you can’t RDO swap a Friday with the following Sunday you can only swap it on the previous Sunday that falls in the same “basic work week”. OPM says maxi flex can do this but the CBA only says you can change hours/days within the week not within the pay period. Compressed schedules and people at FSS working maxi flex 80 are allowed to switch between any days in a pay period. I believe it should be re written to allow this to be done at our request. Currently the CBA is more restrictive than what OPM defines Maxiflex as.

 

[GroundClutter]

You fucked up by not getting enroute when you got hired. Rookie mistake. Now you have to watch those guys complain that 200k isint enough .

Hot takes from Chairman Mao again.