Enhanced CTI

[GulfBravoPapa]

The first two Enhanced CTI schools have been announced.

https://www.faa.gov/newsroom/faa-an...ed-air-traffic-collegiate-training-initiative

Tulsa Community College and University of Oklahoma

 

[32andBelow]

They really making sure everyone has to go to Oklahoma one way or the other

 

[the inquirer]

Just imagine if the SAIC instructors go and teach at the colleges if they pay more. Now we will be even more short on instructors at MMAC. So it will all be a wash.

 

[32andBelow]

Just imagine if the SAIC instructors go and teach at the colleges if they pay more. Now we will be even more short on instructors at MMAC. So it will all be a wash.

Back in original CTI they let working controllers moonlight and make some extra money. Then they took that away. No raise and no second job for you.

 

[ClearanceClarence]

And what’s a degree from one of these places cost? People probably gonna go $80-100K in debt for a job with already mediocre pay just to skip MMAC. Imagine someone going through this just to end up at a level 4 making $80K CPC.

 

[SquawkHijack]

And what’s a degree from one of these places cost? People probably gonna go $80-100K in debt for a job with already mediocre pay just to skip MMAC. Imagine someone going through this just to end up at a level 4 making $80K CPC.

We were talking about this just the other day at my facility. Either the OTS/academy and .mil routes are the only ones worth it. The military side being a maybe these days.

 

[the inquirer]

I’m pretty sure the community college route would be less than 5k for tuition.

Also, we might get worse candidates through this pipeline. I believe that you either got it or you don’t to be a good controller. The good controllers can take the info from a water hose and perform on it. Now people will have 2 years (if going the community college route) to grasp all the info. They will prolly pass everything but at the end of the day, may not end up having the ego/pride to be good.

 

[32andBelow]

I’m pretty sure the community college route would be less than 5k for tuition.

Also, we might get worse candidates through this pipeline. I believe that you either got it or you don’t to be a good controller. The good controllers can take the info from a water hose and perform on it. Now people will have 2 years (if going the community college route) to grasp all the info. They will prolly pass everything but at the end of the day, may not end up having the ego/pride to be good.

You will never have worse candidates when the candidates have skin in the game. It’s gonna be people who actually want to do this

 

[DankVectorz]

Hopefully it’s OKC colleges so the FAA and schools can develop and tweak the program before rolling it out to other schools and thus time it will be standardized curriculum with oversight.

 

[32andBelow]

Hopefully it’s OKC colleges so the FAA and schools can develop and tweak the program before rolling it out to other schools and thus time it will be standardized curriculum with oversight.

I wonder if they’ll have local FAA sups do the Evals

 

[the inquirer]

You will never have worse candidates when the candidates have skin in the game. It’s gonna be people who actually want to do this

False. In my class of 10, 5 failed. 1 from riddle and 1 from beaver, others ots.

And there are plenty of stories like this. People can be great students but fall apart when under pressure.

 

[Gauff]

False. In my class of 10, 5 failed. 1 from riddle and 1 from beaver, others ots.

And there are plenty of stories like this. People can be great students but fall apart when under pressure.

I mean yeah there's plenty of stories but in general people who have invested into something are gonna be more likely to try harder to get certified and pass.

And honestly OKC is a joke. There's plenty of people who wash cause of a bad run that would easily make it at a facility while others can play the academy game and suck at actually controlling. Imagine if you washed out of your facility the moment you get an A1

 

[bomber996]

I mean yeah there's plenty of stories but in general people who have invested into something are gonna be more likely to try harder to get certified and pass.

And honestly OKC is a joke. There's plenty of people who wash cause of a bad run that would easily make it at a facility while others can play the academy game and suck at actually controlling. Imagine if you washed out of your facility the moment you get an A1

But you don't wash the minute you get an A1 at the academy. An A1 is worth 16 points. 84 is still (checks notes) 14 points above the passing score.

You wash because you didn't get the easy points early in the program.

You wash because you weren't able to recover after an error.

You can still pass and get a full on 0% during one of your runs.

Sorry for having little sympathy, but people don't wash because of ONE thing. It's a multitude of things that cause a person to wash. The person who washes with a 69.7% probably also got an 80% on CKT2.

 

[32andBelow]

False. In my class of 10, 5 failed. 1 from riddle and 1 from beaver, others ots.

And there are plenty of stories like this. People can be great students but fall apart when under pressure.

And my class 7/8 CTI made it and 3 OTS washed out

 

[Spoony90]

You will never have worse candidates when the candidates have skin in the game. It’s gonna be people who actually want to do this

I disagree. I’ve seen many CTI grads struggle hard in training and as CPCs. And I’ve seen people with no experience breeze through training and become the best controllers in the building. This is a job where you either have it or dont

 

[Gauff]

But you don't wash the minute you get an A1 at the academy. An A1 is worth 16 points. 84 is still (checks notes) 14 points above the passing score.

You wash because you didn't get the easy points early in the program.

You wash because you weren't able to recover after an error.

You can still pass and get a full on 0% during one of your runs.

Sorry for having little sympathy, but people don't wash because of ONE thing. It's a multitude of things that cause a person to wash. The person who washes with a 69.7% probably also got an 80% on CKT2.

My point was that people have terrible days in training during ojt where if it had been a sim run in the academy they would have lost enough points to wash.

There does need to be some sort of weeding out but the academy does a terrible job in my opinion.

I disagree. I’ve seen many CTI grads struggle hard in training and as CPCs. And I’ve seen people with no experience breeze through training and become the best controllers in the building. This is a job where you either have it or dont

Definitely a job where you either have it or you don't for the most part, but I think the point is you're gonna have more people willing to put effort in to learn and get better if they've already invested time and money. That's not saying they're gonna be the best controller but more likely to study and put forth effort in training to succeed.

It could also just not matter but at least letting some people with some background skip the bottle neck of the academy is good. Because regardless there are some cti grads that will be great controllers just as there are ots applicants that will be. We already let military controllers skip the academy and there's plenty of them that are trash as well 🤷‍♂️

 

[Raise when?]

totally anecdotal, my last trainee was cti and i washed him, he did not study at all

 

[Spoony90]

Definitely a job where you either have it or you don't for the most part, but I think the point is you're gonna have more people willing to put effort in to learn and get better if they've already invested time and money. That's not saying they're gonna be the best controller but more likely to study and put forth effort in training to succeed.

It could also just not matter but at least letting some people with some background skip the bottle neck of the academy is good. Because regardless there are some cti grads that will be great controllers just as there are ots applicants that will be. We already let military controllers skip the academy and there's plenty of them that are trash as well 🤷‍♂️

True. To be faaaaaiiiir… no matter what new thing comes along, we will always bitch about it 😂

 

[DankVectorz]

True. To be faaaaaiiiir… no matter what new thing comes along, we will always bitch about it 😂

The only thing controllers hate more than the status quo is change

 

[GulfCharlie]

The only thing controllers hate more than the status quo is change

Facts right there.