Facility Downgrades / Upgrades

[ajmezz]

Separate pay for separate areas. Problem solved.

 

[EightTwoSierra]

Question. My tower just got upgraded yesterday. How long did it take for you guys to get the pay raise? And how long for back pay? We have quite a few months back pay with tons of OT involved so it’s going to be a big chunk of money!

 

[CHALUPE71]

Question. My tower just got upgraded yesterday. How long did it take for you guys to get the pay raise? And how long for back pay? We have quite a few months back pay with tons of OT involved so it’s going to be a big chunk of money!

Are you at the Whales Vagina? My facility got upgraded this round as well.

When my facility got upgraded back in 2013ish, it took a pay period or two for us to show the actual raise and get back pay.

once you get the new SF50, it won't take long after that

 

[Dominipino]

Question. My tower just got upgraded yesterday. How long did it take for you guys to get the pay raise? And how long for back pay? We have quite a few months back pay with tons of OT involved so it’s going to be a big chunk of money!

I think our was about 2 months ish (4 pay periods)

 

[Nothanks]

The problem is that some Zs have others areas dragging them down.

One area might work "level 12 traffic" while another level 6 or 7. We definitely shouldn't get a pay cut.

Not some Z’s. All of them have this. And every large tracon has the same issue. It is what it is.

 

[ClearanceClarence]

Just pay each person by the aircraft/transmission. Problem solved. /s

 

[CF]

Just pay each person by the aircraft/transmission. Problem solved. /s

Watch me clear this straight in Cessna to land with 10 transmissions.

 

[ClearanceClarence]

Watch me clear this straight in Cessna to land with 10 transmissions.

An unsolicited wind check every 60 seconds never hurt anyone.

 

[Somenewguy]

Watch me clear this straight in Cessna to land with 10 transmissions.

Some controllers I know already do this.

 

[RalphBeast]

Not some Z’s. All of them have this. And every large tracon has the same issue. It is what it is.

Some TRACONs like C90, Dallas, Atlanta make every CPC certify on arrivals into the primary airport, so it's not nearly as bad compared to consolidated TRACONs like N90.

You don't need different pay for different areas at a Z. Simply adjust the areas. If Area A and B are next to each other, but B is substantially more difficult than area A, then require the CPCs in A to certify on a small part of B. This reduced the difficulty/workload gap between A and B, and the overlap also allows for much more staffing flexibility if A is thicc and B is short (more difficult areas tend to have way more staffing issues at our Z).

 

[corn4ahead]

Some TRACONs like C90, Dallas, Atlanta make every CPC certify on arrivals into the primary airport, so it's not nearly as bad compared to consolidated TRACONs like N90.

You don't need different pay for different areas at a Z. Simply adjust the areas. If Area A and B are next to each other, but B is substantially more difficult than area A, then require the CPCs in A to certify on a small part of B. This reduced the difficulty/workload gap between A and B, and the overlap also allows for much more staffing flexibility if A is thicc and B is short (more difficult areas tend to have way more staffing issues at our Z).

Only problem is that half the CPCs in Area A are not good enough controllers to certify in Area B. What are you going to do then? NEST? Not a chance.

We wash at least 50% of people in my area. We could send them across the hall and most would certify. No shame in that. It would help solve some of the staffing issues. But the higher ups won't let it happen.

 

[Nothanks]

Some TRACONs like C90, Dallas, Atlanta make every CPC certify on arrivals into the primary airport, so it's not nearly as bad compared to consolidated TRACONs like N90.

You don't need different pay for different areas at a Z. Simply adjust the areas. If Area A and B are next to each other, but B is substantially more difficult than area A, then require the CPCs in A to certify on a small part of B. This reduced the difficulty/workload gap between A and B, and the overlap also allows for much more staffing flexibility if A is thicc and B is short (more difficult areas tend to have way more staffing issues at our Z).

Maybe a fat cat Chicago you can do that. Most Z’s are super short. Either way, it’s not happening, it’s a staffing/currency nightmare.

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

Some TRACONs like C90, Dallas, Atlanta make every CPC certify on arrivals into the primary airport, so it's not nearly as bad compared to consolidated TRACONs like N90.

You don't need different pay for different areas at a Z. Simply adjust the areas. If Area A and B are next to each other, but B is substantially more difficult than area A, then require the CPCs in A to certify on a small part of B. This reduced the difficulty/workload gap between A and B, and the overlap also allows for much more staffing flexibility if A is thicc and B is short (more difficult areas tend to have way more staffing issues at our Z).

It already takes 2-3 years to certify at a center and now you want to add more sectors?

 

[RalphBeast]

It already takes 2-3 years to certify at a center and now you want to add more sectors?

A competent AG can certify in our easiest area in far less than 3 years. Adding an easy sector or two is not going to make or break them. But it may be a step in equalizing the areas and making life more fair for us.

And I'm ready for the blowback but a Z is level 11 or 12 pay for life. The training is not meant to be easy. The discrepancy in training times, staffing, and difficulty pisses me off as someone that works in the most difficult and shortest staffed area in the building.

So you'll have to excuse me when I propose that the easier areas pull more weight, rather than asking Bernie for another handout as you're basically suggesting.

 

[Nothanks]

A competent AG can certify in our easiest area in far less than 3 years. Adding an easy sector or two is not going to make or break them. But it may be a step in equalizing the areas and making life more fair for us.

And I'm ready for the blowback but a Z is level 11 or 12 pay for life. The training is not meant to be easy. The discrepancy in training times, staffing, and difficulty pisses me off as someone that works in the most difficult and shortest staffed area in the building.

So you'll have to excuse me when I propose that the easier areas pull more weight, rather than asking Bernie for another handout as you're basically suggesting.

No 9 or 10 Z’s?

 

[SquawkHijack]

Only problem is that half the CPCs in Area A are not good enough controllers to certify in Area B. What are you going to do then? NEST? Not a chance.

We wash at least 50% of people in my area. We could send them across the hall and most would certify. No shame in that. It would help solve some of the staffing issues. But the higher ups won't let it happen.

I never thought about that. That’s pretty counter-intuitive on the agency’s behalf.

No 9 or 10 Z’s?

Slowest CONUS Zs are 10s. Guam CERAP is an anomaly at an 8.

 

[Stinger]

Slowest CONUS Zs are 10s. Guam CERAP is an anomaly at an 8.

JCF also a level 8.

 

[SquawkHijack]

JCF also a level 8.

I forgot about Joshua.

 

[AlmostEligible]

The problem is that some Zs have others areas dragging them down.

One area might work "level 12 traffic" while another level 6 or 7. We definitely shouldn't get a pay cut.

lol Level 12 in one area and level 7 in another is a major exaggeration.

 

[AlmostEligible]

JCF also a level 8.

JCF is a TRACON, not a Z