Facility Downgrades / Upgrades

[WavesAndClouds]

Folks at my facility started getting SF50s this week. I just checked Employee Express and the raise and back pay are both in there. Kinda surprised, HR actually putting in work.

Those what did you accomplish at work emails already paying off.

 

[EightTwoSierra]

This is exactly right. It’s the reason there are busier and more complex VFR towers that aren’t at their TCI. I say good for them but also kinda bullshit for the towers who can’t take advantage of that loophole.

Yeah I hear you. I’m at a tower that was just upgraded, we are running ~85% of MYF ops on 1/3 the controllers. No chance of ever getting to 10. Maybe 9 but it’s a huge ask.. Don’t have the airspace to run 10 ops without a multiplier.

 

[CoffeeIV]

ATM was smart and figured out a way to get a small cutout of bravo on the weekends only. That’s the story I’ve heard.

Yeah they had a 60k jump in GA traffic in 1 year. Probably just helicopters going back and forth.

 

[CF]

Yeah I hear you. I’m at a tower that was just upgraded, we are running ~85% of MYF ops on 1/3 the controllers. No chance of ever getting to 10. Maybe 9 but it’s a huge ask.. Don’t have the airspace to run 10 ops without a multiplier.

It’s like VNY. They get like 30k IFR overflights a year from BUR arrivals. That much added to the TCI from planes they never talk to lol.

 

[pedaNTIc]

Yeah I hear you. I’m at a tower that was just upgraded, we are running ~85% of MYF ops on 1/3 the controllers. No chance of ever getting to 10. Maybe 9 but it’s a huge ask.. Don’t have the airspace to run 10 ops without a multiplier.

Yeah but you get a multiplier from that Charlie overlap from ONT, whereas we’re all of 8 miles away and get nuthin. Meanwhile we can’t do diverging headings for back to back IFR departures due to DVAs and hills, but no mountainous terrain multiplier because we’re just a lowly Delta. But DEN gets it, 40ish miles from their mountains. Riiiiiight…

 

[EightTwoSierra]

Yeah but you get a multiplier from that Charlie overlap from ONT, whereas we’re all of 8 miles away and get nuthin. Meanwhile we can’t do diverging headings for back to back IFR departures due to DVAs and hills, but no mountainous terrain multiplier because we’re just a lowly Delta. But DEN gets it, 40ish miles from their mountains. Riiiiiight…

The fact we all don’t get mountainous terrain multipliers is crazy haha, you guys 100% deserve it!! Turn the wrong way and you are dead!

 

[Move78]

Yeah but you get a multiplier from that Charlie overlap from ONT, whereas we’re all of 8 miles away and get nuthin. Meanwhile we can’t do diverging headings for back to back IFR departures due to DVAs and hills, but no mountainous terrain multiplier because we’re just a lowly Delta. But DEN gets it, 40ish miles from their mountains. Riiiiiight…

DEN does not have a terrain multiplier

 

[pedaNTIc]

DEN does not have a terrain multiplier

First I’m hearing that. Are multipliers published somewhere?

 

[S.T.O.P.]

First I’m hearing that. Are multipliers published somewhere?

TCIP has each facility and what they have for their TCI complexity formula. Only SLC, PSP, OGG, and ABQ have the terrain multiplier.

 

[SquawkHijack]

TCIP has each facility and what they have for their TCI complexity formula. Only SLC, PSP, OGG, and ABQ have the terrain multiplier.

How tf do A11 and Fairbanks not have a terrain multiplier? Literally two of the most mountainous facilities I can think of. Hell, ASE is required to do ODO all the time by landing one direction and departing the other because of mountains right off the field. NATCA needs to review this and get that added to the TCI of those who deserve it.

 

[DADDYSbabyBIRD]

How tf do A11 and Fairbanks not have a terrain multiplier? Literally two of the most mountainous facilities I can think of. Hell, ASE is required to do ODO all the time by landing one direction and departing the other because of mountains right off the field. NATCA needs to review this and get that added to the TCI of those who deserve it.

ASE not getting the mountainous terrain one is criminal. However, they are a low level facility so who gives a shit right?

 

[bradlutz]

How tf do A11 and Fairbanks not have a terrain multiplier? Literally two of the most mountainous facilities I can think of. Hell, ASE is required to do ODO all the time by landing one direction and departing the other because of mountains right off the field. NATCA needs to review this and get that added to the TCI of those who deserve it.

We wonder all the time. We also should have converging runways at FAI but they don’t give us that either.

 

[S.T.O.P.]

Let's be honest, the TCI is geared towards commercial airports and traffic. There are flaws that need to be addressed, like how do "Heavies" and "Supers" not count for any complexity when sequencing? Shoot, good for MYF for finding a way to use the TCI to get their bag.

 

[CF]

Let's be honest, the TCI is geared towards commercial airports and traffic. There are flaws that need to be addressed, like how do "Heavies" and "Supers" not count for any complexity when sequencing? Shoot, good for MYF for finding a way to use the TCI to get their bag.

A classic “don’t hate the player, hate the game” situation.

 

[Move78]

How tf do A11 and Fairbanks not have a terrain multiplier? Literally two of the most mountainous facilities I can think of. Hell, ASE is required to do ODO all the time by landing one direction and departing the other because of mountains right off the field. NATCA needs to review this and get that added to the TCI of those who deserve it.

I think he only listed towers.

 

[bradlutz]

I think he only listed towers.

A11 is a TRACON. FAI is an up down. ASE is a TRACAB

 

[SquawkHijack]

I think he only listed towers.

They’re mixed facility types I believe. Does the terrain multiplier only apply to certain ones like tower only? I quite honestly don’t know much about this.

 

[Move78]

A11 is a TRACON. FAI is an up down. ASE is a TRACAB

Correct. The guy S.T.O.P. listed towers. So I meant maybe those facilities weren’t on his list because he only listed towers.
The terrain add on exists for tracon with the same criteria as tower: 4000 above primary airport field elevation within the airspace boundary.
The enroute terrain addon is 10000 msl.
Those are all pass/fail btw so you get the same points for 1 mountain as you do for 100 mountains. Stupid.

 

[S.T.O.P.]

Correct. The guy S.T.O.P. listed towers. So I meant maybe those facilities weren’t on his list because he only listed towers.
The terrain add on exists for tracon with the same criteria as tower: 4000 above primary airport field elevation within the airspace boundary.
The enroute terrain addon is 10000 msl.
Those are all pass/fail btw so you get the same points for 1 mountain as you do for 100 mountains. Stupid.

Yessir, I did tower only. I work at a tower and was working on a waiver for our terrain complexity and was pulling data from other towers that had it to make a case.

 

[bradlutz]

Correct. The guy S.T.O.P. listed towers. So I meant maybe those facilities weren’t on his list because he only listed towers.
The terrain add on exists for tracon with the same criteria as tower: 4000 above primary airport field elevation within the airspace boundary.
The enroute terrain addon is 10000 msl.
Those are all pass/fail btw so you get the same points for 1 mountain as you do for 100 mountains. Stupid.

Stupid is right.