FAA Academy Washout - Still Wanting to Pursue Career in ATC

[Bandit117]

I can only speak for my facility(which is one of the "bigger" ones)... the majority is not washouts. FSS took washouts regularly for a few years, but it doesn't happen much anymore.

Yeah I can say that I don’t know how many people who were offered FSS after a TRB actually took it. I Met a random FSS guy once who washed out of a tower and took the FSS offer but that was it.

 

[J-one-s]

Yeah I can say that I don’t know how many people who were offered FSS after a TRB actually took it. I Met a random FSS guy once who washed out of a tower and took the FSS offer but that was it.

Well it's also up to our ATMs to decide if we want to take someone from the nest. I can't speak for the 2 other hub facilities, but my ATM is pretty picky. I think they learned their lesson from taking previous washouts...they're not a great long term solution.

The big picture is: there's a ton of people who are NOT washouts, that ARE 2152, natca dues paying members, and they're not able to progress their careers without a break in service.

Even when they apply to an OTS bid, they have to jump through all the hoops(atsa) again. THEN alaska FSS coordinates with okc on "release dates" even though it's not a legit transfer. They end their service for one day. It's bullshit.

Edit: I'm not saying FSS people should be able to go anywhere, but 4s, 5s, 6s seems reasonable. I think after paying dues, they should be afforded that opportunity, along with the ability to know where they're going, before going to the academy.

 

[HighFrequency]

The big picture is: there's a ton of people who are NOT washouts, that ARE 2152, natca dues paying members, and they're not able to progress their careers without a break in service.

Even when they apply to an OTS bid, they have to jump through all the hoops(atsa) again. THEN alaska FSS coordinates with okc on "release dates" even though it's not a legit transfer. They end their service for one day. It's bullshit.

To tack onto this, another reason having us in NCEPT would be to end the nonstop attrition of new hires we get when they apply to both FSS and ATC bids, train in Alaska for 6 months, get an FOL for OKC, then jump ship before they're even checked out. I'm not really blaming anyone for shooting their shot, but it sucks that we keep getting people that clog up the training pipeline and waste our time just to leave before they're any use to the agency. If we could just transfer like FSS historically could, we would at least have to adhere to releasing people only when we're properly staffed. It's more fair IMO. I've already seen 2 or 3 FSS trainees think the grass is greener only to wash out of the enroute/tower academy and start begging to come back.

Also, to OP's original point: FSS is a decent gig if you're interested in it. We're not all trying to get out of here lol. I can say from experience that washing out/resigning means you will not be going through OKC again unless some major stuff changes. I've confirmed that with the head people at OKC Academy. But if you don't mind Alaska (and honestly a lot of us wouldn't want to be anywhere else), it's a good career for similar pay to low levels with not nearly the amount of stress or critical decision making. Accepting that "controlling" isn't the "be-all-end-all" was really good for me and if you play the cards right there are other paths within the agency you can take with FSS as a stepping stone.

 

[Gauff]

I can say from experience that washing out/resigning means you will not be going through OKC again unless some major stuff changes. I've confirmed that with the head people at OKC Academy.

Don't know who told you that but it's straight up not true. I know people recently that after almost two years of washing from the academy got back to the academy, another that washed from the academy and got picked up on a prior experience bid, and another that originally got picked up prior experience then washed and just got picked up again prior experience to a level 9 after a couple years contracting.

So unless something has changed in the last 3 months then your info is dead wrong on how the FAA is handling things currently. Only thing I can't confirm is if the same applies to a resignation as opposed to a washout

 

[32andBelow]

Don't know who told you that but it's straight up not true. I know people recently that after almost two years of washing from the academy got back to the academy, another that washed from the academy and got picked up on a prior experience bid, and another that originally got picked up prior experience then washed and just got picked up again prior experience to a level 9 after a couple years contracting.

So unless something has changed in the last 3 months then your info is dead wrong on how the FAA is handling things currently. Only thing I can't confirm is if the same applies to a resignation as opposed to a washout

These guys know from first hand experience

 

[J-one-s]

Don't know who told you that but it's straight up not true. I know people recently that after almost two years of washing from the academy got back to the academy, another that washed from the academy and got picked up on a prior experience bid, and another that originally got picked up prior experience then washed and just got picked up again prior experience to a level 9 after a couple years contracting.

So unless something has changed in the last 3 months then your info is dead wrong on how the FAA is handling things currently. Only thing I can't confirm is if the same applies to a resignation as opposed to a washout

They washed from the academy and applied to a prior experience bid(that requires 52 weeks of cpc)?

Edit: okay I saw where you wrote they then got a few years contract experience. Sure, I guess thats an option... but the second they leave the agency, the clock is ticking. They need to be back in the faa before 31 or 35. I don't think they should have to accept that.

We pay the same dues as everyone else. And we're not the only ones getting screwed. There are low level towers that feel just as stuck as fss does. They need relief, so that they can go on and progress their own careers. Why hinder a group of natca members(most of whom have never washed out) from helping those low level towers?

 

[Bandit117]

They washed from the academy and applied to a prior experience bid(that requires 52 weeks of cpc)?

Edit: okay I saw where you wrote they then got a few years contract experience. Sure, I guess thats an option... but the second they leave the agency, the clock is ticking. They need to be back in the faa before 31 or 35. I don't think they should have to accept that.

We pay the same dues as everyone else. And we're not the only ones getting screwed. There are low level towers that feel just as stuck as fss does. They need relief, so that they can go on and progress their own careers. Why hinder a group of natca members(most of whom have never washed out) from helping those low level towers?

I fully agree, for what it’s worth. You should be part of the process. That natca isn’t willing to fight for you says a lot. Have you guys considered filing a collective ULP claim? That natca is not representing your interests by conspiring with the agency to keep you locked out of a process you should be a part of?

 

[SquawkHijack]

I fully agree, for what it’s worth. You should be part of the process. That natca isn’t willing to fight for you says a lot. Have you guys considered filing a collective ULP claim? That natca is not representing your interests by conspiring with the agency to keep you locked out of a process you should be a part of?

I feel like this would be a strong nexus on the simple fact that they’re also 2152s and a portion of them are ATC washouts. Controllers can come over but can’t go back? Makes zero sense.

 

[HighFrequency]

Don't know who told you that but it's straight up not true. I know people recently that after almost two years of washing from the academy got back to the academy, another that washed from the academy and got picked up on a prior experience bid, and another that originally got picked up prior experience then washed and just got picked up again prior experience to a level 9 after a couple years contracting.

So unless something has changed in the last 3 months then your info is dead wrong on how the FAA is handling things currently. Only thing I can't confirm is if the same applies to a resignation as opposed to a washout

I also know washouts who took the long way around and got CTOs, went contract and got back in. But I was told by HR, and the head of placement in OKC that per the current SOP there is no possible way to attend the academy again after failing there or later on at a facility. There are extremely rare exceptions because of outside circumstances according to them, but yeah. The bids say something to the effect that "prior failure at the academy MAY lead to non selection" but OKC Onboarding's own rules say it WILL lead to nonselection. Obviously none of this applies if you circumvent the academy through another hiring pathway.

I know this because I applied again in the last year, scored best qualified, and my application sat in purgatory before reaching out and escalating right to the top to find out it was rejected. I know 3 others in the same situation who all got the same answer. I even know one who got a TOL rescinded when they went back and reviewed his work history. The managers of onboarding have a list of who washed out and the exact reasons why down to eval and test scores. They even had my training forms from 2017 ready to pull up. They cross check it with every applicant, maybe its tied to SSN or something. I don't doubt you know someone who got back in but I think we've all been in the agency long enough to know some people get special treatment and others sometimes just slip through the cracks.

 

[SquawkHijack]

I also know washouts who took the long way around and got CTOs, went contract and got back in. But I was told by HR, and the head of placement in OKC that per the current SOP there is no possible way to attend the academy again after failing there or later on at a facility. There are extremely rare exceptions because of outside circumstances according to them, but yeah. The bids say something to the effect that "prior failure at the academy MAY lead to non selection" but OKC Onboarding's own rules say it WILL lead to nonselection. Obviously none of this applies if you circumvent the academy through another hiring pathway.

I know this because I applied again in the last year, scored best qualified, and my application sat in purgatory before reaching out and escalating right to the top to find out it was rejected. I know 3 others in the same situation who all got the same answer. I even know one who got a TOL rescinded when they went back and reviewed his work history. The managers of onboarding have a list of who washed out and the exact reasons why down to eval and test scores. They even had my training forms from 2017 ready to pull up. They cross check it with every applicant, maybe its tied to SSN or something. I don't doubt you know someone who got back in but I think we've all been in the agency long enough to know some people get special treatment and others sometimes just slip through the cracks.

I think it’s stupid the agency is doing this too. Context does matter and it’s fair if someone straight up wasn’t cut out for this work, but if someone knows their shit, had a bad run on a final sim and got sent home they shouldn’t be blacklisted. The FAA needs too many people anyhow to be cherry-picking.

 

[HighFrequency]

I think it’s stupid the agency is doing this too. Context does matter and it’s fair if someone straight up wasn’t cut out for this work, but if someone knows their shit, had a bad run on a final sim and got sent home they shouldn’t be blacklisted. The FAA needs too many people anyhow to be cherry-picking.

These days I don't have the energy to push for a change. There's an argument to be made that demonstrating aptitude somewhere else and putting in the work could or should allow for another try, but its not really mine to make anymore. I don't think they're all that unreasonable to draw a line somewhere, and getting shot down for a second chance probably let me refocus on better opportunities in the agency than being stuck working traffic somewhere I wouldn't want to be. Silver linings and all that.

Still, I would want to see for the sake of everyone else in Alaska that the hemorrhaging to OKC stops ASAP. It's not every new hire jumping ship, but its enough that the 40% (just guessing here) that can't leave (prior washouts, aged out, etc.) are stuck halfway training those that can. Spending half a year grinding through OJT with someone knowing they have a TOL and are one foot out the door already is infuriating. Including FSS in NCEPT alleviates that somewhat in my eyes. We have facilities right now that can't stay open for their published hours because of staffing, and one in particular certified two 2152s just to have them leave for OKC within a year, with the agency having no way to delay the loss. NCEPT would at least hold them where they are until someone comes in to replace them. We get staffed, the people who want to leave at least have a pathway to, world peace, etc.

But also, back to OP again: as someone who was once in your shoes, be flexible to where life takes you. When I was in my early 20s and driving away from the academy without a job, I had up until then been "air traffic or bust." Like almost every other washout/resignation I know, I was bitter for a while. But eventually if you take the blinders off and hustle a bit, you'll find there are plenty of other doors in the agency and elsewhere that can set you up for success. Without bullshit 6 day work weeks and shift rotations. Now I'm in my 30s, married, and jumping on some really awesome opportunities. Paying for a CTO or joining the military will work, but think about the juice vs. the squeeze. You can sometimes get a lot more juice for a lot less squeeze if you catch my drift. Just food for thought.

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

I tried to ERR to TMU and was told that’s not allowed lol. Let us know how it goes!

As it turns out the two people in house who put in paperwork both turned down the offers because TMU is trying to do a week of days and a week of nights and that doesn't work with their schedules so now we have to put out a national bid

 

[skykid11]

Hello,

I am a washout from the FAA Academy that trained En-Route, I made it to the last day of radar evaluations and failed to reach the minimum passing score of 70%. Before attending the academy, I was a student at an AT-CTI school that I had just started at (one semester in). It is to my knowledge that the FAA generally does not re-accept washouts into the academy to train them. Honestly, I still have a tremendous passion for working in this career field, and my results at the academy did not reflect it. I genuinely believe that I could have passed, and my poor results in nonradar made it much harder for me to "survive" as one of my row instructors put it. I have looked into alternative schooling such as AT-CTO programs that can provide direct-contract work with SERCO, but they're extremely expensive and mainly tower-based. I would consider the fast-track 10-week option with AdvancedATC ($25,000) had I been trained in tower operations, but frankly I don't know much about tower control compared to en-route. I'm looking at the military/air force, but was hoping to seek further advice from those in the ATC field on this forum. Please let me know with your thoughts/suggestions. Thank you very much.

Sincerely,
-scudrunner

Get your Aircraft Dispatchers license. Dispatchers at the Major Airlines have comparable pay to Controllers with better schedules.