August 2025

[SquawkHijack]

I moved along and your regarded ass told me to come back and post information that doesn’t exist. Idk how they let you talk to airplanes.

Moved right along to your next response…

And obviously I was generalizing when I said you could be more informative. Existing in a forum for discussion as a NATCA rep with nothing but “you’re wrong” energy ain’t it bro.

 

[yoboiconnor]

I’m just correcting bad information. If the correct information doesn’t exist then it can’t get posted. You’re not mad at me.
When the correct information exists it’ll be sent to the facreps.


Dec 15/16 was the proposal from ATO. The FAA has multiple lines of business

The other guy is being a dick but we’re all frustrated at the fact we can’t get anywhere and like 100 people move a year when there have got to be thousands of applicants and even more so if they thought they’d get through. These are probably exaggerations. I do have a few questions though as someone who hasn’t put in an ERR cause it’s impossible. I’ve been at ZJX for 7 years and saw one the first month I was here then hasn’t seen one since.
Does the union believe NCEPT is working?
Does the FAA want to inhibit movement and shuts down proposals to increase it?
Why do we use arbitrary percentages instead of average staffing percentages? It seems like if we go off wish list staffing numbers were never going to meet those.
We’re bleeding so many controllers to supe jobs, simply cause they won’t get anywhere. Surely the union sees that as a huge problem….

 

[Phillytroll69]

The other guy is being a dick but we’re all frustrated at the fact we can’t get anywhere and like 100 people move a year when there have got to be thousands of applicants and even more so if they thought they’d get through. These are probably exaggerations. I do have a few questions though as someone who hasn’t put in an ERR cause it’s impossible. I’ve been at ZJX for 7 years and saw one the first month I was here then hasn’t seen one since.
Does the union believe NCEPT is working?
Does the FAA want to inhibit movement and shuts down proposals to increase it?
Why do we use arbitrary percentages instead of average staffing percentages? It seems like if we go off wish list staffing numbers were never going to meet those.
We’re bleeding so many controllers to supe jobs, simply cause they won’t get anywhere. Surely the union sees that as a huge problem….

We're bleeding controllers to support bids-So the FAA is getting their pick.

The union collaborated ncept-and thinks it's working.

Why do we use arbitrary percentages?
The union picked them.

You are seeing collaboration in action.

I have seen numerous faa sided people move where they want. I've not seen many union members move.

 

[CreepyPineapple]

The other guy is being a dick but we’re all frustrated at the fact we can’t get anywhere and like 100 people move a year when there have got to be thousands of applicants and even more so if they thought they’d get through. These are probably exaggerations. I do have a few questions though as someone who hasn’t put in an ERR cause it’s impossible. I’ve been at ZJX for 7 years and saw one the first month I was here then hasn’t seen one since.
Does the union believe NCEPT is working?
Does the FAA want to inhibit movement and shuts down proposals to increase it?
Why do we use arbitrary percentages instead of average staffing percentages? It seems like if we go off wish list staffing numbers were never going to meet those.
We’re bleeding so many controllers to supe jobs, simply cause they won’t get anywhere. Surely the union sees that as a huge problem….

FAA/NATCA will keep thinking/saying it’s working until everyone who wants to move puts in paperwork regardless if their facility can release. Until there’s thousands of ERRs in and only 100 or less people moving, they will continue to pretend it’s a good system.

 

[Pickle Switch]

FAA/NATCA will keep thinking/saying it’s working until everyone who wants to move puts in paperwork regardless if their facility can release. Until there’s thousands of ERRs in and only 100 or less people moving, they will continue to pretend it’s a good system.

This is exactly what my RVP told me. They said if only 1 or 2 people have paperwork in to leave from the facility because "whats the point, we cant release anyways," then they have nothing to show the DO. But if half of the facility has paperwork in all the time and no one is getting picked up for multiple rounds they can justify either a change or a fight for deviation.

 

[Nothanks]

This is exactly what my RVP told me. They said if only 1 or 2 people have paperwork in to leave from the facility because "whats the point, we cant release anyways," then they have nothing to show the DO. But if half of the facility has paperwork in all the time and no one is getting picked up for multiple rounds they can justify either a change or a fight for deviation.

Yet people still won’t put their paperwork in to help make the cases that more people than they have on paper want to move

 

[GroundClutter]

Yet people still won’t put their paperwork in to help make the cases that more people than they have on paper want to move

Maybe because no one is coaching anyone to do so?

Maybe if there was a NCEPT rep on here. Surely they could help.

 

[Jayyy Jayyy]

FAA/NATCA will keep thinking/saying it’s working until everyone who wants to move puts in paperwork regardless if their facility can release. Until there’s thousands of ERRs in and only 100 or less people moving, they will continue to pretend it’s a good system.

Agreed with the general sentiment but it’s a catch-22.

The downside to encouraging everyone at your facility to file ERR’s to properly reflect demand even if they cannot release is this: making sure they understand the importance of filing an ERR means there’s a 95%+ chance you are going if selected. Barring something catastrophic or life altering, you are going! Filling ERR’s shouldn’t be done impulsively or without research.

Make sure everyone at your facility understands this. This “get selected and then do your research” strategy that NATCA enables isn’t the way. There are 800,000 reasons why NCEPT is absolutely awful, but one of the biggest reasons is how they refuse to penalize ERR declinations.

Don’t be the guy that half-asses it, turns down a selection, and then prevents somebody else from leaving.

 

[32andBelow]

Agreed with the general sentiment but it’s a catch-22.

The downside to encouraging everyone at your facility to file ERR’s to properly reflect demand even if they cannot release is this: making sure they understand the importance of filing an ERR means there’s a 95%+ chance you are going if selected. Barring something catastrophic or life altering, you are going! Filling ERR’s shouldn’t be done impulsively or without research.

Make sure everyone at your facility understands this. This “get selected and then do your research” strategy that NATCA enables isn’t the way. There are 800,000 reasons why NCEPT is absolutely awful, but one of the biggest reasons is how they refuse to penalize ERR declinations.

Don’t be the guy that half-asses it, turns down a selection, and then prevents somebody else from leaving.

They just need to select alternates it’s not that complicated. All these people just complicate everything

 

[Move78]

Moved right along to your next response…

And obviously I was generalizing when I said you could be more informative. Existing in a forum for discussion as a NATCA rep with nothing but “you’re wrong” energy ain’t it bro.

Stop being wrong about everything all the time

 

[Redacted]

Yet people still won’t put their paperwork in to help make the cases that more people than they have on paper want to move

NATCA could also make a submission system that isn’t complete ass involving faxing, HR POCs, and resubmitting every 15 months. They could do it all through a portal on their site for us where you tick boxes of where you want to go.

But they don’t.

 

[32andBelow]

NATCA could also make a submission system that isn’t complete ass involving faxing, HR POCs, and resubmitting every 15 months. They could do it all through a portal on their site for us where you tick boxes of where you want to go.

But they don’t.

Transfer portal when

 

[Gauff]

November panel postponed to January 21st for those who care.

 

[ZB32]

November panel postponed to January 21st for those who care.

That’s not a postponement at that point. That’s a cancellation.

 

[Gauff]

That’s not a postponement at that point. That’s a cancellation.

Well there's still gonna be an additional 4 panels next year along with the "postponed" panel

 

[Move78]

The other guy is being a dick but we’re all frustrated at the fact we can’t get anywhere and like 100 people move a year when there have got to be thousands of applicants and even more so if they thought they’d get through. These are probably exaggerations.

Depends on the year but it’s been between 450-600 per year post Covid. Post CRWG is way down but there’s been tons of possible ERRs left on the table the 2 CRWG panels due to lack of outbound demand.

I do have a few questions though as someone who hasn’t put in an ERR cause it’s impossible.

This is a terrible idea and could cause you to miss opportunity. Take ownership of your end. It’s just paperwork.
Details at the end of this post.

I’ve been at ZJX for 7 years and saw one the first month I was here then hasn’t seen one since.

You guys also had such a staffing disaster that they made a special MOU at national. So idk how anyone would argue you needed more losses during that time.

Does the union believe NCEPT is working?

Depends who you ask.

Does the FAA want to inhibit movement and shuts down proposals to increase it?

Absolutely

Why do we use arbitrary percentages instead of average staffing percentages? It seems like if we go off wish list staffing numbers were never going to meet those.

The ETT% (85)is sort of an attempt to define ‘health’. Kinda like ‘how large of a staffing deficit does a facility need to be at to still survive attritions’ So averages aren’t relevant in that context.
The AOB 80 (after CRWG) was an attempt to roll into the new targets and still allow the same number of total transfers.

We’re bleeding so many controllers to supe jobs, simply cause they won’t get anywhere. Surely the union sees that as a huge problem….

Been a huge problem since they signed NRP in 2016.


ZJX is currently 5 CPCs away from being green in January with an August release. And your ETT is way up so if you added 5 CPCs tomorrow your ETT would allow for 18 losses. Similar scenario for March but they’ll try and raise it by then I bet. There’s a bunch of Zs with large amounts of transfers available. The ETTs are public information.

 

[ZB32]

Well there's still gonna be an additional 4 panels next year along with the "postponed" panel

Any idea on the timeline? Hopefully they’re not accepting more applications post the initial deadline.

What facilities are currently able to release on the upcoming panel? I don’t know which list is correct.

 

[Move78]

NATCA could also make a submission system that isn’t complete ass involving faxing, HR POCs, and resubmitting every 15 months. They could do it all through a portal on their site for us where you tick boxes of where you want to go.

But they don’t.

NATCA is not your employer. The FAA controls the submission system.

 

[Gauff]

NATCA is not your employer. The FAA controls the submission system.

Correct. NATCA doesn't collaborate on our behalf to make working conditions better for us so that's unlikely to change

 

[Move78]

Correct. NATCA doesn't collaborate on our behalf to make working conditions better for us so that's unlikely to change

Can’t be using the c word round here.
The FAA claims they’re incapable of automating the submission system. The only option is to build a new one and they won’t do it.
And honestly it makes sense if you look at it from the perspective of an organization that considers any transfer system to be some kind of a privilege. What a low priority everything would be.