Jan 2026

[Move78]

Don’t want to talk about everyone else in the NAS tho… just grandstand that NCEPT somehow allows more movement than the old system.

And I don’t want to hear (before you start) about how only 7% of controllers want to move. We both know that’s bullshit and that lots of controllers don’t bother putting in paperwork because NCEPT is a joke. If NATCA really cared about movement they would be gathering analytics of NCEPT and encouraging as many people as possible to file ERRs and show the agency true numbers for desired movement. Instead we get CRWG and MOUs that handicap reinstatements/returning priors trying to get a list.

There’s 289 BUEs at ZMP and exactly 1 requested to transfer. It was approved.

It was a reply to comment specifically about 1 ZMP ERR

Well it is a big problem. For instance I want to close to a center close to family BUT my level 6 is under staffed.

I found someone at that center that wants to come here BUT they can't lose anyone either.

It's a but more nuanced than chronic complaining since people are career locked.

If you CAN'T be released, you should get the pay if the facility you are requesting after 15 months or something

Why would Management even consider agreeing to this

 

[Phillytroll69]

Why would Management even consider agreeing to this

We don't need to convince management, we need to convince congress. There's a staffing shortage, there's money, a lot of us still love moving planes, we deserve to have a career move or guaranteed promotion and move after 10 years or so.

 

[32andBelow]

you should just be able to apply for any opening that you qualify for. You think TSA is like nah dog you can’t move and be TSA over there.

 

[Move78]

We don't need to convince management, we need to convince congress.

Congress? You don’t convince congress of anything, you pay them for votes. But we all think the PACs a scam and our legislative team is just a buncha traffic dodgers so scratch that.

There's a staffing shortage,

And staffing shortage is actually the biggest hurdle, every transfer removes a cpc.

there's money, a lot of us still love moving planes, we deserve to have a career move or guaranteed promotion and move after 10 years or so.

Deserve got nuffin to do wit it.

you should just be able to apply for any opening that you qualify for. You think TSA is like nah dog you can’t move and be TSA over there.

We’re way closer to ‘no one’ than we are to anyone.
You all hate NATCA so much but if they didn’t exist it would immediately be no one and all you would here from Duffy on tv is how he’s a hero cuz his cpc numbers are now finally on the rise. And all the stupid tv watchers would believe him

 

[Gauff]

We’re way closer to ‘no one’ than we are to anyone.
You all hate NATCA so much but if they didn’t exist it would immediately be no one and all you would here from Duffy on tv is how he’s a hero cuz his cpc numbers are now finally on the rise. And all the stupid tv watchers would believe him

You're right, since we have NATCA we get to hear a Nick talk about how great Duffy is and regurgitate the same points plus talk about how vital the equipment is. Thank God for NATCA

 

[NightWatch]

Because controllers are chronic complainers and shoot ourselves in the foot by our inability to shut the fuck up. Movement is contradictory to staffing and people whining about being overworked. Not the easiest needle to thread so instead we get compromises where places that need staffing bypass NCEPT to some extent.

Yeah, never mind the fact that thousands of controllers are stuck at low level shit holes for most of their career because we are the most mismanaged workforce in the entire USG. Thank my lucky stars YOU’RE at your nice Z tho.

Why would Management even consider agreeing to this

It’s about negotiating… something our union full of fucking tards knows nothing about.

Y’all spend so much time kicking back saying, “nah the agency won’t do that” without even trying to negotiate anything but rubber stamp their proposed MOUs all at the same time. It’s real nice of y’all to increase the NRP back to 85% with an extra box to check to release now. CRWG was yet another NATCA/FAA joint-sponsored scam to fuck controllers and you’re too indoctrinated to even see it.

You're right, since we have NATCA we get to hear a Nick talk about how great Duffy is and regurgitate the same points plus talk about how vital the equipment is. Thank God for NATCA

Duffy hit really good Segways for Nick to discuss pay in front of congress 3 times and Nick brought up fucking equipment exactly 3 times…

 

[Move78]

It’s about negotiating… something our union full of fucking tards knows nothing about.

Y’all spend so much time kicking back saying, “nah the agency won’t do that” without even trying to negotiate anything but rubber stamp their proposed MOUs all at the same time. It’s real nice of y’all to increase the NRP back to 85% with an extra box to check to release now. CRWG was yet another NATCA/FAA joint-sponsored scam to fuck controllers and you’re too indoctrinated to even see it.

The reply was to a proposal to award pay raises to people for merely requesting a facility. So everyone can just request a 12. Not be selected for a 12. Not train and certify at a 12. Just get 12 pay for requesting it. And you think the problem is the negotiating?

 

[32andBelow]

We’re way closer to ‘no one’ than we are to anyone.
You all hate NATCA so much but if they didn’t exist it would immediately be no one and all you would here from Duffy on tv is how he’s a hero cuz his cpc numbers are now finally on the rise. And all the stupid tv watchers would believe him

We just hear that already with Nick standing next to him

 

[yoboiconnor]

And staffing shortage is actually the biggest hurdle, every transfer removes a cpc.

Every transfer removes a CPC from one facility to another. The losing could be 84% staffed to a 70% facility but the agency still won’t allow that.
How about swaps? Haven’t seen one of those in my entire career. Especially like type facilities, you lose a CPC but gain another and lose the time training but 2 people are much happier. But the agency/union have no problem releasing on temp 6 month for literally no gain. Most people just end up bidding supe bids cause that’s the best way to move around here… and then the union doesn’t want to give them their seniority back if they return. The incentives are all towards leaving the union and staying in management and while Nick ran on the enhanced swap idea we haven’t heard a peep about it. I won’t bash him for NCEPT or CRWG. Those were before him

 

[32andBelow]

Every transfer removes a CPC from one facility to another. The losing could be 84% staffed to a 70% facility but the agency still won’t allow that.
How about swaps? Haven’t seen one of those in my entire career. Especially like type facilities, you lose a CPC but gain another and lose the time training but 2 people are much happier. But the agency/union have no problem releasing on temp 6 month for literally no gain. Most people just end up bidding supe bids cause that’s the best way to move around here… and then the union doesn’t want to give them their seniority back if they return. The incentives are all towards leaving the union and staying in management and while Nick ran on the enhanced swap idea we haven’t heard a peep about it. I won’t bash him for NCEPT or CRWG. Those were before him

Center to center swaps would be like no big deal you can even make them go one at a time if one facility is much better off.

 

[Move78]

Every transfer removes a CPC from one facility to another. The losing could be 84% staffed to a 70% facility but the agency still won’t allow that.

It removes a cpc and adds a trainee not another cpc. Management is very much not a fan of that.

How about swaps? Haven’t seen one of those in my entire career. Especially like type facilities, you lose a CPC but gain another and lose the time training but 2 people are much happier.

Happy is not relevant. But yeah like type swaps have been a goal for quite some time. Unfortunately your shit head countrymen voted republicans into power and all the crwg work group agreements have been put on hold while this retarded agency pays millions of dollars to an outside entity to tell them how not to not let anyone go anywhere that’s not a red tracon.

But the agency/union have no problem releasing on temp 6 month for literally no gain.

The union doesn’t release anyone onto 6 month SOIs. And if it were up to the union they would absolutely not exist. Every single OS SOI that’s ever been filled has just been management exercising their rights because they can. They’re bad for staffing and deviations out of red units are bad for staffing

Most people just end up bidding supe bids cause that’s the best way to move around here…

This is true

and then the union doesn’t want to give them their seniority back if they return.

Nobody cares about your seniority when you leave.

The incentives are all towards leaving the union and staying in management

This is true and it’s caused by the national release policy. Also the 15% is significant and it’s exacerbated by how badly our pay has been destroyed by our stupid nation’s financial policies post COVID.

and while Nick ran on the enhanced swap idea we haven’t heard a peep about it.

This is still a goal but the agency gets nothing out of it so you need agency leadership in place that cares about the person more than a data point or more than their own career progression. And by ‘in place’ I mean more than the 8 minutes they normally stay to set up their next temp gig.

I won’t bash him for NCEPT or CRWG. Those were before him

He actually created crwg with mick when they were RVPs. Btw it’s the only reason many of these facilities have way more new trainees than they’ve had in years.

 

[Bandit117]

It removes a cpc and adds a trainee not another cpc. Management is very much not a fan of that.

Happy is not relevant. But yeah like type swaps have been a goal for quite some time. Unfortunately your shit head countrymen voted republicans into power and all the crwg work group agreements have been put on hold while this retarded agency pays millions of dollars to an outside entity to tell them how not to not let anyone go anywhere that’s not a red tracon.

The union doesn’t release anyone onto 6 month SOIs. And if it were up to the union they would absolutely not exist. Every single OS SOI that’s ever been filled has just been management exercising their rights because they can. They’re bad for staffing and deviations out of red units are bad for staffing

This is true

Nobody cares about your seniority when you leave.

This is true and it’s caused by the national release policy. Also the 15% is significant and it’s exacerbated by how badly our pay has been destroyed by our stupid nation’s financial policies post COVID.

This is still a goal but the agency gets nothing out of it so you need agency leadership in place that cares about the person more than a data point or more than their own career progression. And by ‘in place’ I mean more than the 8 minutes they normally stay to set up their next temp gig.

He actually created crwg with mick when they were RVPs. Btw it’s the only reason many of these facilities have way more new trainees than they’ve had in years.

That’s a Shortsighted way to look at it because the agency is gaining a person with a demonstrated ability to succeed, especially in a like versus like situation like a center to a center. Compared an academy grad who went where they got or an ncept pickup who might have gone where they would get picked up, you’re getting a person who wants to be there.

The facilities in a swap are gaining someone who probably won’t be trying to go anywhere else. placing people where they want means you only have to train them once. If you put someone somewhere they don’t really want to be, as soon as they get certified, They’re going to try to become a trainee again by transferring. Or they might have to play the ncept game and go to where they might be able to get picked up instead of where they well and truly want to be. whereas I would imagine a swap is much more likely a final destination for both people involved.

With a consistency in staffing, facilities get built up by people who stick around and having a steady manning of people who are happy to be where they are. It makes all the difference in the world. There’s a positive for everyone involved. Morale is huge. The agency can’t quantify it. Being in a place everyone can’t wait to leave and a place people wanted to get to is night and day. The agency is shortsighted because the benefit doesn’t happen overnight.

 

[Termine]

Happy is not relevant.

Yeah we know. And that (along with pay, obviously) is why people keep quitting.

 

[bravounite33]

That’s a Shortsighted way to look at it because the agency is gaining a person with a demonstrated ability to succeed, especially in a like versus like situation like a center to a center. Compared an academy grad who went where they got or an ncept pickup who might have gone where they would get picked up, you’re getting a person who wants to be there.

The facilities in a swap are gaining someone who probably won’t be trying to go anywhere else. placing people where they want means you only have to train them once. If you put someone somewhere they don’t really want to be, as soon as they get certified, They’re going to try to become a trainee again by transferring. Or they might have to play the ncept game and go to where they might be able to get picked up instead of where they well and truly want to be. whereas I would imagine a swap is much more likely a final destination for both people involved.

With a consistency in staffing, facilities get built up by people who stick around and having a steady manning of people who are happy to be where they are. It makes all the difference in the world. There’s a positive for everyone involved. Morale is huge. The agency can’t quantify it. Being in a place everyone can’t wait to leave and a place people wanted to get to is night and day. The agency is shortsighted because the benefit doesn’t happen overnight.

Yeah you're thinking like a logical employee and not management. You might have local management (OS, OM, maybe even ATM) that are actually good people that want to do good with their employees and care about their happiness and wellbeing but that's not management at the regional or national level. As Move78 said, they see it as "you want to take 2 CPCs and make them both trainees, why would I want to lose 2 CPCs and get trainees instead? That doesn't help my numbers." They just want bodies to fill up their short staffed facilities. Any transfer at all (except NEST), is a negative for that goal of theirs. They'll just accept someone that resigns instead and just find a new hire to fill that hole whose more likely to just take whatever the FAA gives them.

It's pathetic that the FAA (and probably most of the government really) hasn't figured out that the better you treat your employees, the better off the agency would be. Happy people that like their job and that are treated with respect make great recruiters. But alas, they'll just recruit Fortnite players instead. Screw logic.

 

[RalphBeast]

Does anyone know why ATC can't do local hiring? Some agencies like USCIS hire for specific offices, border patrol/CBP (and atc) give you a list which you may or may not like and then you figure out how to get home later.

 

[Move78]

That’s a Shortsighted way to look at it because the agency is gaining a person with a demonstrated ability to succeed, especially in a like versus like situation like a center to a center. Compared an academy grad who went where they got or an ncept pickup who might have gone where they would get picked up, you’re getting a person who wants to be there.

The facilities in a swap are gaining someone who probably won’t be trying to go anywhere else. placing people where they want means you only have to train them once. If you put someone somewhere they don’t really want to be, as soon as they get certified, They’re going to try to become a trainee again by transferring. Or they might have to play the ncept game and go to where they might be able to get picked up instead of where they well and truly want to be. whereas I would imagine a swap is much more likely a final destination for both people involved.

With a consistency in staffing, facilities get built up by people who stick around and having a steady manning of people who are happy to be where they are. It makes all the difference in the world. There’s a positive for everyone involved. Morale is huge. The agency can’t quantify it. Being in a place everyone can’t wait to leave and a place people wanted to get to is night and day. The agency is shortsighted because the benefit doesn’t happen overnight.

 

[Acquired Taste]

Move78 just curious, any word on if they are going to do the May ncept? Seems unlikely given that it's May and a timeline hasn't been posted yet. Guess with that extremely low outbound err demand at many of the places that can release, such as zmp, there aren't very many ncept hopefuls that would miss out if they just cancel it anyway.

 

[NightWatch]

The reply was to a proposal to award pay raises to people for merely requesting a facility. So everyone can just request a 12. Not be selected for a 12. Not train and certify at a 12. Just get 12 pay for requesting it. And you think the problem is the negotiating?

I really don’t care because you’re still using that to deflect from valid inquiry. Why are you so hung up on talking about 12s anyway when most controllers will likely never even get a chance to train at one thanks to cucks like you?

And yes, I believe you and every other braindead rep within NATCA has a serious problem with negotiating, for the benefit of controllers that is. Definitely not the agency tho. Also, you do understand what, “the parties” means in an MOU correct? How many movements were there last NCEPT panel on March 17th again, like 23? That’s pretty abysmal considering it’s been around ~100 releases per panel for several years. (I’m pretty sure you’re the one who’s historically said NCEPT provides more movement than the old system) I’d bet a paycheck that has to do with the most recent NCEPT MOU raising the NRP from 80% to 85% staffed to target WITH the same “expect to certify in 12 months” box to check in addition to that. Yall think you’re real fucking slick by slowly rolling out this ponzi scheme you call CRWG, don’t you…

Patting yourselves on the back while pulling a 180 from the core elemental goals of a labor union. You literally cannot make this shit up lmao.

Move78 just curious, any word on if they are going to do the May ncept? Seems unlikely given that it's May and a timeline hasn't been posted yet. Guess with that extremely low outbound err demand at many of the places that can release, such as zmp, there aren't very many ncept hopefuls that would miss out if they just cancel it anyway.

A date for the panel to convene has still not been agreed upon as of today.

Yeah you're thinking like a logical employee and not management. You might have local management (OS, OM, maybe even ATM) that are actually good people that want to do good with their employees and care about their happiness and wellbeing but that's not management at the regional or national level. As Move78 said, they see it as "you want to take 2 CPCs and make them both trainees, why would I want to lose 2 CPCs and get trainees instead? That doesn't help my numbers." They just want bodies to fill up their short staffed facilities. Any transfer at all (except NEST), is a negative for that goal of theirs. They'll just accept someone that resigns instead and just find a new hire to fill that hole whose more likely to just take whatever the FAA gives them.

It's pathetic that the FAA (and probably most of the government really) hasn't figured out that the better you treat your employees, the better off the agency would be. Happy people that like their job and that are treated with respect make great recruiters. But alas, they'll just recruit Fortnite players instead. Screw logic.

So our labor union (whose job is to negotiate for the best pay, benefits and working conditions they can) should just say “yes daddy” and play along? Fuck that, burn NCEPT to the ground and all these Mickey Mouse MOUs with it. Like the one we were promised, “day one” for pay raises.

 

[Move78]

Move78 just curious, any word on if they are going to do the May ncept? Seems unlikely given that it's May and a timeline hasn't been posted yet. Guess with that extremely low outbound err demand at many of the places that can release, such as zmp, there aren't very many ncept hopefuls that would miss out if they just cancel it anyway.

No news. They say it’s being rescheduled. There’s a contractor involved now. I’m sure they’re having a hard time convincing the 3rd party to ignore that the obvious fix, for the agency, to all this has always been to stop letting anyone move anywhere and just fill every vacancy with a new hire.

I really don’t care because you’re still using that to deflect from valid inquiry.

That inquiry to grant 12 pay on request is not valid

Why are you so hung up on talking about 12s anyway when most controllers will likely never even get a chance to train at one thanks to cucks like you?

You’re mistaken, I have nothing to do with anyone’s career

And yes, I believe you and every other braindead rep within NATCA has a serious problem with negotiating, for the benefit of controllers that is. Definitely not the agency tho. Also, you do understand what, “the parties” means in an MOU correct? How many movements were there last NCEPT panel on March 17th again, like 23? That’s pretty abysmal considering it’s been around ~100 releases per panel for several years. (I’m pretty sure you’re the one who’s historically said NCEPT provides more movement than the old system) I’d bet a paycheck that has to do with the most recent NCEPT MOU raising the NRP from 80% to 85% staffed to target WITH the same “expect to certify in 12 months” box to check in addition to that. Yall think you’re real fucking slick by slowly rolling out this ponzi scheme you call CRWG, don’t you…

It’s a good thing I’m a nobody because if it were up to me I’d pull out of the release policy entirely. I’m sure most of you would too. The union won’t do that because right now there’s X amount of people that can’t get picked up and if they just let the agency exercise their own rights for this then that number X would increase. So it’d be a net negative. Even though the message boards fail to understand that. But personally I think the bargaining unit has become its own worse enemy. So without NCEPT you’d have even more poor bastards stuck in the misery of their own regret but atleast they wouldn’t screw up the blame anymore.

Patting yourselves on the back while pulling a 180 from the core elemental goals of a labor union. You literally cannot make this shit up lmao.

They always said it was going to get phased in. They did it over a year and the agency wanted to do it day 1.

So our labor union (whose job is to negotiate for the best pay, benefits and working conditions they can) should just say “yes daddy” and play along? Fuck that, burn NCEPT to the ground and all these Mickey Mouse MOUs with it. Like the one we were promised, “day one” for pay raises.

Agreed

 

[Pickle Switch]

...to not let anyone go anywhere that’s not a red tracon.

cant even get to a red tracon that we've been trying to for years.