Government Shutdown

POINTOUT said:
Why so?
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It depends on the person. To a lot of people time off is more valuable than a few more $$.

Tom said:
So the previous opm Guidance was you are either furloughed or working (no such thing as paid leave) AND therefore that should have been followed until a new interpretation comes out. (on tomorrow jan 18th) It seems unless you were ordered to work and refused the old rule should apply

To then say it's either lwop or charged unless you are on admin duties (in the future) is fair.

I would find it hard to believe they would backdate their own guidance? I haven't really paid attention the past 8 years but maybe someone else can chime in.


https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-ove...-guidance/guidance-for-shutdown-furloughs.pdf
page 8
You weren't on leave, you were furloughed when it happened, tomorrow you'll be on leave. GUESS

"No. When an excepted employee is not working or not performing excepted activities in compliance with the Antideficiency Act, he or she cannot be in a pay status. Excepted employees must be either performing excepted activities or furloughed during any absence from work. The furlough must be documented by a furlough notice. If an excepted employee refuses to report for work after being ordered to do so, he or she will be considered to be absent without leave (AWOL) and will be subject to any consequences that may follow from being AWOL. "
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I agree it’s BS that they back date the approval for leave use, yet here it is. That link you have is from 2015. Some facilities have been told to mark everything as the leave requested and it will be fixed later after they receive new guidance.

As of last week you are correct in that there was no leave. Now that the bill was signed by the president you are able to take leave during a shutdown starting December 18th. It is pretty clear to me anyway that it was written that way intentionally.
 
Uscolt45 said:
As of last week you are correct in that there was no leave. Now that the bill was signed by the president you are able to take leave during a shutdown starting December 18th. It is pretty clear to me anyway that it was written that way intentionally.
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I do think that NATCA and the other federal unions can challenge the legality of this bill once the government reopens, and I imagine they're already planning to do so behind the scenes. Specifically, the existing guidance is that under a shutdown, the government can only incur a financial obligation if "there is some reasonable and articulable connection between the function to be performed and the safety of human life or the protection of property." Obviously ATC services falls under this definition, which is why we're excepted employees. However I don't think you could make the argument that giving us paid time off is critical to life and safety. Just like you'd move into furlough status if you temporarily lost your medical, since admin tasks are not considered essential, having a paid vacation day is outside the legal definition, and I think there's a good chance that provision could be struck down.
 
I’m in a weird scenario..I started my change of station leave on December 21st and I haven’t checked into my new facility yet bc they said I’m furloughed.. I’m curious what leave I’ll be charged. It seems insane that I’ll get back paid for sitting on my ass while others have to work but from what I’ve gathered that appears to be the case..am I seriously on a paid vacation right now? I’ve never been furloughed before so idk how this shit works but that seems crazy to me.
 
Adkinsr27 said:
I’m in a weird scenario..I started my change of station leave on December 21st and I haven’t checked into my new facility yet bc they said I’m furloughed.. I’m curious what leave I’ll be charged. It seems insane that I’ll get back paid for sitting on my ass while others have to work but from what I’ve gathered that appears to be the case..am I seriously on a paid vacation right now? I’ve never been furloughed before so idk how this shit works but that seems crazy to me.
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Yes, that'll almost certainly be the case. And even crazier, you likely won't even be charged for the COS leave, so you can probably take another 8 days sometime in the next two years.
 
170tovocus said:
Yes, that'll almost certainly be the case. And even crazier, you likely won't even be charged for the COS leave, so you can probably take another 8 days sometime in the next two years.
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Haha dude that’s nuts. I mean I didn’t ask to sit on my ass and not work. But sure, pay me and let me keep my COS; makes total sense lol.
 
LEAD004 said:
I’m in the same boat but have only been furloughed since last week
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I’ll never understand the government’s methods to their madness but in this scenario I’ll take it..I was convinced that I’d either be on LWOP or I’d have to burn all my leave for whatever days I’d want to get back-paid. I definitely didn’t think I’d be on free leave with guaranteed back-pay. There’s no acronym for that one haha
 
They'll have a hard time charging us leave after the government reopens. Some facilities are still putting in leave as normal, some are denying all leave and putting in furlough and others are just putting in furlough.

It would take forever to get it all correct. Also, they can't charge half the workforce and not the other.
 
Not gonna lie, I had a week of bid leave, just came back and the ATM asked me how my unpaid leave was. Just giggled and asked him why I was still coded as annual instead of furlough. No one has a clue what's going to happen.
 
Foogy said:
Not gonna lie, I had a week of bid leave, just came back and the ATM asked me how my unpaid leave was. Just giggled and asked him why I was still coded as annual instead of furlough. No one has a clue what's going to happen.
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The answer is
A: A lot better than your unpaid week of work.
B: WTF are you doing at work, you aren’t essential to the NAS......
 
Hey I just found the 2018 guidance!

"All scheduled paid leave and other paid time off (including paid holiday time off) are
cancelled for lapse-affected employees during a lapse in appropriations"

YOU COULD NOT HAVE BEEN ON LEAVE AS IT DIDN'T EXIST. YOU WERE FURLOUGHED. The guidance says you were put in a furlough status-even if they do track type requested

If an excepted employee needs to be excused from duty, the employee must be
furloughed. This means that an excepted employee must be furloughed if excused from
duty on a holiday or regular workday. For example, if an excepted employee is excused
from duty on Christmas, December 25, the employee must be placed in furlough status on
that day. The sample furlough notices for excepted employees in OPM’s shutdown
furlough guidance may be modified to so that a single notice can be provided to cover
any holidays or other approved absence on a regular workday during the lapse in
appropriations. Unless the employee’s agency specifically directs otherwise, excepted
employees should generally report for duty on the next day on which they are scheduled
to work.


https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-ove...-guidance/guidance-for-shutdown-furloughs.pdf
 
Tom said:
Hey I just found the 2018 guidance!

"All scheduled paid leave and other paid time off (including paid holiday time off) are
cancelled for lapse-affected employees during a lapse in appropriations"

YOU COULD NOT HAVE BEEN ON LEAVE AS IT DIDN'T EXIST. YOU WERE FURLOUGHED. The guidance says you were put in a furlough status-even if they do track type requested

If an excepted employee needs to be excused from duty, the employee must be
furloughed. This means that an excepted employee must be furloughed if excused from
duty on a holiday or regular workday. For example, if an excepted employee is excused
from duty on Christmas, December 25, the employee must be placed in furlough status on
that day. The sample furlough notices for excepted employees in OPM’s shutdown
furlough guidance may be modified to so that a single notice can be provided to cover
any holidays or other approved absence on a regular workday during the lapse in
appropriations. Unless the employee’s agency specifically directs otherwise, excepted
employees should generally report for duty on the next day on which they are scheduled
to work.


https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-ove...-guidance/guidance-for-shutdown-furloughs.pdf
Click to expand...


Yes we know that. But the new rules just signed into law are dated back to December 22nd. So they have retroactively changed that.
 

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