2020 January pay raise.

PushingTin said:
lolz

View attachment 3261
Click to expand...

More like less than half of that, pretax, and only from the June increase. Locality no longer does anything.

Not only that, you only get it after several years of zero lump sum because you're still theoretically moving up within the payband, despite not actually getting paid. You have to hit the top of your basic pay band cap before you start getting lump sums, which takes a while after you're above the fed cap.

Wouldn't be so bad if everyone got extra-CBA incentives... but we're not all that special. Either way, in the end I'm more concerned about my pension being what it is supposed to be.

RavenYZF-R6 said:
I see what you’re saying now. I never noticed the high locality facility’s cap is at the federal cap. You’re about 5.5k short of the base difference. That is some BS for sure.

View attachment 3260
Click to expand...
For 2020, it'll be about 8-9k below the top of the pay band, and continuing to get worse and worse every year there is an increase in locality percentages.
 
blarg said:
More like less than half of that, pretax, and only from the June increase. Locality no longer does anything.
Click to expand...

Lol, This is exactly how the "1st world probs" chick became a meme. She got home from Whole Foods to her gated Cul de Sac in her Tesla Model S one day and found the freezer was already full of groceries!!!, and melted down. Life is not fair!

Some people feel grieved that $192,300 before any differentials isn't enough. And with a straight face will give you a sincere story why.

I don't feel bad. Its all about perspective. Feeling like victims and entitled to something special is how the scams at select facilities start. And as you can see, it will never ever be enough. The other 10,000 controllers can in no way relate to you, working for crumbs and having their dues go to fund all the bullshit
 
PushingTin said:
Lol, This is exactly how the "1st world probs" chick became a meme. She got home from Whole Foods to her gated Cul de Sac in her Tesla Model S one day and found the freezer was already full of groceries!!!, and melted down. Life is not fair!

Some people feel grieved that $192,300 before any differentials isn't enough. And with a straight face will give you a sincere story why.

I don't feel bad. Its all about perspective. Feeling like victims and entitled to something special is how the scams at select facilities start. And as you can see, it will never ever be enough. The other 10,000 controllers can in no way relate to you, working for crumbs and having their dues go to fund all the bullshit
Click to expand...
I'm not saying it's impossible to survive on that amount. I'm saying we all have pay bands that we are supposed to earn based on our facility. The ones that are in the most expensive/hardest places to live can't even earn that amount. So yes, it isn't "fair." It is what it is, it just sure would be nice if it wasn't based on some arbitrary number that doesn't scale the way it is supposed to. It shouldn't even be an issue, but Congress is mostly incompetent. You're also implying plenty of people think it is enough... then ask why they aren't requesting N90/ZNY/ZOA?

But yea, to anyone who doesn't live in the area, it sure sounds like a lot. Then you get people trying to scam their high 3, shocked they have to put 6k down and pay 4k/mo rent for a tiny ass house. And every other developmental that gets certified immediately develops "allergies" and gets the fuck out as soon as they can, because the only way they will ever afford their own place is to live with roommates for 10+ years so they can save up a 40% down payment and then still be barely covering their mortgage. Oh, and that'll only work if they don't have a family/kids, giving the freedom to save a significant % of income.
 
PushingTin said:
Lol, This is exactly how the "1st world probs" chick became a meme. She got home from Whole Foods to her gated Cul de Sac in her Tesla Model S one day and found the freezer was already full of groceries!!!, and melted down. Life is not fair!

Some people feel grieved that $192,300 before any differentials isn't enough. And with a straight face will give you a sincere story why.

I don't feel bad. Its all about perspective. Feeling like victims and entitled to something special is how the scams at select facilities start. And as you can see, it will never ever be enough. The other 10,000 controllers can in no way relate to you, working for crumbs and having their dues go to fund all the bullshit
Click to expand...
Also remember that most people at that salary are still on break 40% of the time or have administrative jobs with 18 layers of redundancy where they are individually accountable for basically nothing and performance reviews give the same raise no matter what.
 
blarg said:
I'm not saying it's impossible to survive on that amount. I'm saying we all have pay bands that we are supposed to earn based on our facility. The ones that are in the most expensive/hardest places to live can't even earn that amount. So yes, it isn't "fair." It is what it is, it just sure would be nice if it wasn't based on some arbitrary number that doesn't scale the way it is supposed to. It shouldn't even be an issue, but Congress is mostly incompetent. You're also implying plenty of people think it is enough... then ask why they aren't requesting N90/ZNY/ZOA?

But yea, to anyone who doesn't live in the area, it sure sounds like a lot. Then you get people trying to scam their high 3, shocked they have to put 6k down and pay 4k/mo rent for a tiny ass house. And every other developmental that gets certified immediately develops "allergies" and gets the fuck out as soon as they can, because the only way they will ever afford their own place is to live with roommates for 10+ years so they can save up a 40% down payment and then still be barely covering their mortgage. Oh, and that'll only work if they don't have a family/kids, giving the freedom to save a significant % of income.
Click to expand...
How is high 3 a scam
 
PushingTin said:
Lol, This is exactly how the "1st world probs" chick became a meme. She got home from Whole Foods to her gated Cul de Sac in her Tesla Model S one day and found the freezer was already full of groceries!!!, and melted down. Life is not fair!

Some people feel grieved that $192,300 before any differentials isn't enough. And with a straight face will give you a sincere story why.

I don't feel bad. Its all about perspective. Feeling like victims and entitled to something special is how the scams at select facilities start. And as you can see, it will never ever be enough. The other 10,000 controllers can in no way relate to you, working for crumbs and having their dues go to fund all the bullshit
Click to expand...

Disagree. Look at house sales in Fremont, or ZOA’s neighborhoods. Cool 1.6 million for a decent four bedroom, no thanks. How many facilities have that going on? Your other 10,000 controllers, at least they can afford a house In their area with what they make.

Which is the reason you can go to California in that area and be a newly minted tech Guy, comp sci guy, or finance lackey and get a big salary out the gate because it costs a shit ton to live there. But for joe the controller, who prolly finished last in his class and got stuck there, tough shit. Good luck friend. Hello scam/allergy. Yeah. The pay scale and locality doesn’t work for them, beacuse if it did, they’d be paid about twice what they are.

I feel empathy for them, ACK, ASE and anyone else in that same proverbial mess. therefore, They have to do what they have to do, and while I Might not agree with it, I can understand it.

And yeah, I can’t really relate per se, as I‘ve got it good at my 11, being at the cap after doing the 12-10-11 ERR Shuffle over the last 17 years, but I can still feel like man, that sucks. Personally I’d rather be stuck at BGM (no offense) knocking down 4 pay, where at least I can still afford a house, then there.... But then again, the guy who got stuck at his level 5 for 5 years during NCEPT probably feels like hey, I’ve got it worse, at least you make more money.... so here we are. Perspectives.

Move78 said:
How is high 3 a scam
Click to expand...

I believe he is talking about people who transfer in at the end of their career looking for their high 3, and then either wash or retire , never helping staffing enough for other people to get out....
 
Last edited:
No CPC is making peanuts. Just look in this thread you got guys at level 6’s pulling in over $100k with barely any OT.

(except for maybe low levels in super high COL areas like Aspen and Martha Vinyard)
 
Sorry but when you are arguing $192,300 base is not enough, you've jumped the shark. There is no clause that says you're entitled to a fancy house next door to tech millionaires in silicon valley. We already have dramatically unfair things about our payscales, starting with the thousands of people who have suffered arbitrary downgrades in the last 10 years, while other specialties haven't been touched. Its also not "fair" that those people are now capped out 10 years Into their career, or now above a much diminished new cap.

This is what happens when you single out and privelage special facilities. You basically sanctify this victim mentality and set them apart as feeling special from everyone else. Then when the cap goes up its not enough. What is...225? 300? 500? Meanwhile the majority of people in the same union make 75 at some shithole place that was forced onto them. And you walk next to these assholes at the convention making 300 and complaining about it. Its a bad look. A rising tide raises all ships... If you wanna up all the pay bands across the board I'm all for it. But fuck the sacred cows.
 
The majority make more than 75. $75k is still fantastic all things considered since we’re going to get into that conversation.

And I’m pretty sure anyone can get to N90 if they so desire.
 
spider said:
The majority make more than 75. $75k is still fantastic all things considered since we’re going to get into that conversation.
Click to expand...

I don' want any worse of an oligarchy than we already have, and its pretty bad as it is. It will never be enough! Greed begets more greed.

Ppl reading you guys complaining about making 250k+ a year are going full David @ the Dentist. "Is this even real life!?"



giphy.gif
 
PushingTin said:
I don' want any worse of an oligarchy than we already have, and its pretty bad as it is. It will never be enough! Greed begets more greed.

Ppl reading you guys complaining about making 250k+ a year are going full David @ the Dentist. "Is this even real life!?"
Click to expand...

I don't think you're totally viewing the issue properly. I don't think anyone is saying they can't survive at these places, or even that you'd be living in poverty. The question isn't whether or not they're making enough, it's whether or not it's enough to get people to transfer and fill the staffing issue.

I'm going to specifically talk about your favorite facility, N90. Yes, everyone knows they make a lot of money. But obviously it's NOT enough to draw people to go there. Whereas the 75k to the smaller facilities is clearly enough to get people to join the agency and go to Elmira or wherever. Sure they might want to leave, but they were still willing to go there in the first place. How many people do you know are willing to go to N90? It's not a lot. I know you're going to talk about the culture there, but honestly that's rubbish. Training failures from every facility will make excuses. Their check out rate from level 8+ transfers over the last 10 years, not counting withdrawals, has been over 80%. The fact is nobody wants to go get their asses kicked in at work 6 days a week and have to live on long island for that amount of money. I don't know what the amount is, but to dismiss the idea that it would take more than what they make to draw people there is just flat out wrong, and it is proven by the lack of interest.

Or maybe I'm wrong and everyone here is transferring to N90, who knows.
 
PushingTin said:
Sorry but when you are arguing $192,300 base is not enough, you've jumped the shark. There is no clause that says you're entitled to a fancy house next door to tech millionaires in silicon valley. We already have dramatically unfair things about our payscales, starting with the thousands of people who have suffered arbitrary downgrades in the last 10 years, while other specialties haven't been touched. Its also not "fair" that those people are now capped out 10 years Into their career, or now above a much diminished new cap.

This is what happens when you single out and privelage special facilities. You basically sanctify this victim mentality and set them apart as feeling special from everyone else. Then when the cap goes up its not enough. What is...225? 300? 500? Meanwhile the majority of people in the same union make 75 at some shithole place that was forced onto them. And you walk next to these assholes at the convention making 300 and complaining about it. Its a bad look. A rising tide raises all ships... If you wanna up all the pay bands across the board I'm all for it. But fuck the sacred cows.
Click to expand...
192,300 isnt nearly as relevant here as you're letting on because it doesn't translate the same to every location. You're stuck on the high number because in shithole Michigan the houses are free. If you make 12 pesos a month and your mortgage is 12 pesos a month you're in a similar spot if you make 7 million a month and that same house costs 7 million a month. Can't just say ah he's a millionaire he's privileged.
 
This is embarrassing. I have said my peace and it speaks for itself. Going to watch Slum dog Millionaire on repeat now!
 
tylertrend said:
They should just move N90 to a more desirable and cheaper part of the country - something on par with say, Dallas or Tampa, and eliminate the staffing and huge expense problem. It's a TRACON, doesn't need to be smack center in NYC.
Click to expand...
This would solve it but the politicians won't allow it, even put it in Albany or a place like that with the TRACON consolidations it has been shows you can easily move radar feeds around the region.
 

Similar threads

Phillyman2633
Pay vs Inflation Calculator
2 3 4
Replies
66
Views
7K
bravoindia
B
C
  • Solved
January Raise
Replies
3
Views
1K
Phanatical
P
Periculant
NATCA is going to secure a 50% raise for sure
4 5 6
Replies
105
Views
12K
Periculant
Periculant
A
Raises after signing FOL
Replies
3
Views
1K
adcge
A
HaZarDouZ
June pay raise?
5 6 7
Replies
122
Views
19K
Balls2/H
B
Back
Top Bottom