Class D transition with flight following

[Acquired Taste]

Dumb question that got me thinking. Let's say as an approach controller, you're talking to a vfr a/c receiving flight following. Is that a/c authorized to transition through a class D since 2 way radio comms are established? Or does that only count if they have comms with tower? Because at least where I work, approach still has to call and point out the guy going through the delta.
3-2-5 of the AIM states: Arrival or Through Flight Entry Requirements. Two-way radio communication must be established with the ATC facility providing ATC services prior to entry and thereafter maintain those communications while in the Class D airspace. Pilots of arriving aircraft should contact the control tower on the publicized frequency and give their position, altitude, destination, and any request(s).

Second unrelated question: do you guys take the flash on guys below your mva from other sectors when they are climbing up to at least meet your mva? I was always taught to wait but my trainee was arguing that as long as you don't vector them it's fine. I thought i had some decent counterpoints but I have since forgotten.

 

[wand_waver]

Dumb question that got me thinking. Let's say as an approach controller, you're talking to a vfr a/c receiving flight following. Is that a/c authorized to transition through a class D since 2 way radio comms are established? Or does that only count if they have comms with tower? Because at least where I work, approach still has to call and point out the guy going through the delta.
3-2-5 of the AIM states: Arrival or Through Flight Entry Requirements. Two-way radio communication must be established with the ATC facility providing ATC services prior to entry and thereafter maintain those communications while in the Class D airspace. Pilots of arriving aircraft should contact the control tower on the publicized frequency and give their position, altitude, destination, and any request(s).

Second unrelated question: do you guys take the flash on guys below your mva from other sectors when they are climbing up to at least meet your mva? I was always taught to wait but my trainee was arguing that as long as you don't vector them it's fine. I thought i had some decent counterpoints but I have since forgotten.

I think technically the a/c can enter the delta. I usually preface my transmissions with “proceed on course, remain clear of delta airspace.”

If the a/c is climbing to my MVA (and I know that for a fact) I’d buy it and just wait to vector LOA permitting if it’s outside my airspace. Otherwise you could still vector below the MVA as long as you’re vectoring away from and climbing away from any prominent obstacle.

 

[rhombus]

Dumb question that got me thinking. Let's say as an approach controller, you're talking to a vfr a/c receiving flight following. Is that a/c authorized to transition through a class D since 2 way radio comms are established? Or does that only count if they have comms with tower? Because at least where I work, approach still has to call and point out the guy going through the delta.
3-2-5 of the AIM states: Arrival or Through Flight Entry Requirements. Two-way radio communication must be established with the ATC facility providing ATC services prior to entry and thereafter maintain those communications while in the Class D airspace. Pilots of arriving aircraft should contact the control tower on the publicized frequency and give their position, altitude, destination, and any request(s).

The tower is the ATC facility providing ATC services in class D airspace, not an approach control, so a pilot would have to be talking to the tower to come in unless you call them for a point out

 

[MJ]

Is that a/c authorized to transition through a class D

Yes. The facility providing services is responsible. If radar services aren't terminated or the pilot isn't instructed to contact the tower, the pilot isn't responsible for any further coordination.

2-1-16 is the reference.

b. Coordinate with the appropriate control tower for transit authorization when you are providing radar traffic advisory service to an aircraft that will enter another facility's airspace.
NOTE: The pilot is not expected to obtain his/her own authorization through each area when in contact with a radar facility.

Here's an ATPB about it also: https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/media/atpb_october_2017.pdf

take the flash on guys below your mva from other sectors when they are climbing up to at least meet your mva?

Yeah. MVA has nothing to do with transfer of identification.

 

[HenryTheAce]

Yes. The facility providing services is responsible. If radar services aren't terminated or the pilot isn't instructed to contact the tower, the pilot isn't responsible for any further coordination.

This ??

 

[Acquired Taste]

Yes. The facility providing services is responsible. If radar services aren't terminated or the pilot isn't instructed to contact the tower, the pilot isn't responsible for any further coordination.


Yeah. MVA has nothing to do with transfer of identification.

Ok I'll buy the class D part but with the mva thing, you can't or at least you definitely shouldn't accept transfer of radar ID of an a/c that's level and entering your airspace below the mva. Or even for the guy climbing to above the mva, what if he gets shipped immediately and he's 1000 below your mva and says we'd like to level off here to avoid icing or we need 20 degrees left for buildup. You can't really just say sorry, your below my mva so you have to keep climbing into the ice/keep heading toward that thunderstorm. Obviously that's kind of extreme and you might be able to get around it with some gray area stuff but still.

 

[MJ]

Ok I'll buy the class D part but with the mva thing, you can't or at least you definitely shouldn't accept transfer of radar ID of an a/c that's level and entering your airspace below the mva. Or even for the guy climbing to above the mva, what if he gets shipped immediately and he's 1000 below your mva and says we'd like to level off here to avoid icing or we need 20 degrees left for buildup. You can't really just say sorry, your below my mva so you have to keep climbing into the ice/keep heading toward that thunderstorm. Obviously that's kind of extreme and you might be able to get around it with some gray area stuff but still.

None of that changes anything. You likely take handoffs all the time where you have no authority for issuing control instructions. The MVA doesn't mean anything in the context of radar ID.

 

[TreeFowerFife]

Emphasis on the note.

 

[Phanatical]

I don’t understand your issue with vectoring. VFR aircraft not given an altitude assignment may be vectored at any altitude assuming they aren’t in Class G airspace, and then only with pilot request. It would really only apply if you had to lock down a VFR aircraft for some reason.

 

[DA]

The way your question is phrased puts an obligation on the pilot. If the pilot is talking to you on approach and you bust the towers delta that’s on you. If you point them out or transfer radio comms that’s up to you, your LC, and your local LOAs.