Consider all current and new rules while imagining new schedules

[Raise when?]

The real answer that I understand will never work because the FAA hates us is we go down to a 32 hour work week and do a reverse rattler, mandated nationally. Our hourly wages would have to increase so as to keep the same "salary" to meet this accomodation, and many of us would likely just work a lot more OT until staffing finally is fixed in 2075.

The NASA sleep study conducted in...what was it, 2013-14, proved that the reverse rattler was the best 24 hr work schedule for fatigue. This way everyone could have their weekend and still comply with making the NAS a safer place.

Of course this will never happen because it will force the FAA to spend more money, and despite them saying that safety is the most important thing, money (and not paying us) is actually more important to them than safety.

 

[32andBelow]

The real answer that I understand will never work because the FAA hates us is we go down to a 32 hour work week and do a reverse rattler, mandated nationally. Our hourly wages would have to increase so as to keep the same "salary" to meet this accomodation, and many of us would likely just work a lot more OT until staffing finally is fixed in 2075.

The NASA sleep study conducted in...what was it, 2013-14, proved that the reverse rattler was the best 24 hr work schedule for fatigue. This way everyone could have their weekend and still comply with making the NAS a safer place.

Of course this will never happen because it will force the FAA to spend more money, and despite them saying that safety is the most important thing, money (and not paying us) is actually more important to them than safety.

Reverse rattler is never going to work in real life. We did first day mids during Covid and it was the most tiring shift I’ve ever experienced in my life

 

[Raise when?]

Reverse rattler is never going to work in real life. We did first day mids during Covid and it was the most tiring shift I’ve ever experienced in my life

The science based research disagrees with you brotha.

At the end of the day it's a 24 hr operation and nothing will be perfect but I do believe it's better for fatigue.

https://www.sanders.senate.gov/wp-content/uploads/32-Hour-Workweek-Act_Fact-Sheet_FINAL.pdf

The world has undergone enormous changes since the 40-hour workweek was set by the FairLabor Standards Act in 1940. American workers are now over 400 percent more productive thanthey were back then and continued technological advances are likely to increase the gap betweenworker productivity and worker gains. While weekly wages for the average American worker areactually lower than they were 50 years ago after adjusting for inflation, CEOs are now makingnearly 400 times more than what their employees earn. It’s time that working families—not justCEOs and wealthy shareholders—are able to benefit from increased productivity so that they canenjoy more leisure time, family time, education and cultural opportunities, and less stress.

Moving to a 32-hour workweek with no loss of pay is not a radical idea. In fact, movement inthat direction is already taking place in other developed countries. France, the seventh-largesteconomy in the world, has a 35-hour workweek and is considering reducing it to 32 hours. Theworkweek in Norway and Denmark is about 37 hours a week. In the United States, a recent studyfound that 35 million workers in the United States—or 28 percent of the total workforce—couldhave a four-day workweek within a decade due to AI-led productivity gains.

 

[SolicitSVFR]

https://www.sanders.senate.gov/wp-content/uploads/32-Hour-Workweek-Act_Fact-Sheet_FINAL.pdf

The world has undergone enormous changes since the 40-hour workweek was set by the FairLabor Standards Act in 1940. American workers are now over 400 percent more productive thanthey were back then and continued technological advances are likely to increase the gap betweenworker productivity and worker gains. While weekly wages for the average American worker areactually lower than they were 50 years ago after adjusting for inflation, CEOs are now makingnearly 400 times more than what their employees earn. It’s time that working families—not justCEOs and wealthy shareholders—are able to benefit from increased productivity so that they canenjoy more leisure time, family time, education and cultural opportunities, and less stress.

Moving to a 32-hour workweek with no loss of pay is not a radical idea. In fact, movement inthat direction is already taking place in other developed countries. France, the seventh-largesteconomy in the world, has a 35-hour workweek and is considering reducing it to 32 hours. Theworkweek in Norway and Denmark is about 37 hours a week. In the United States, a recent studyfound that 35 million workers in the United States—or 28 percent of the total workforce—couldhave a four-day workweek within a decade due to AI-led productivity gains.

I’m a center right as far as politics go, but if Bernie actually did this for us he’d have my instant vote

 

[AB19]

I’m a center right as far as politics go, but if Bernie actually did this for us he’d have my instant vote

Too bad they made us vote for Hillary or trump

 

[Raise when?]

I’m a center right as far as politics go, but if Bernie actually did this for us he’d have my instant vote

Brother it just makes sense.

Just like the slate book is archaic and frankly, inappropriate for todays’s economy post covid..the 40 hour work week is not appropriate considering the increased productivity through technology of the entire workforce.

Reverse rattler and 32hr week with no reduction in pay would be a huge win for us. Like I said, FAA would never let it happen because they hate us. And honestly I feel the union is too weak to even ask for it…

Something that has always bothered me is the FAA lecturing us with their propaganda briefings and media about safety and professionalism.

I’ve been on shifts on weather nights with 4 CPCs when our number is 10. Yet me and others performed our jobs some of us 3 hours on position with absolutely no delay in service. We went above and beyond countless times, overcoming situations we were set up to fail in. And I know MANY of you have too.

Don’t fucking tell me safety is more important than money when all of your policies contradict your stupid fucking propaganda.


The airlines screamed about our staffing to my recollection as early as 2017-2018. And mayor dumbass just acknowledged we have a staffing problem in 2024…fucking disgustingly inept
organization

TLDR: fuck you , pay me, 32hr work week NOW!

 

[SharkBait]

TLDR: fuck you , pay me, 32hr work week NOW!

Wait till the bean counters get at this, even if you work 1 1/2 on 30 off, that means you get 2 hours of breaks a day. They will say you are already working a 30 hour week, what are you complaining about?

 

[SolicitSVFR]

Wait till the bean counters get at this, even if you work 1 1/2 on 30 off, that means you get 2 hours of breaks a day. They will say you are already working a 30 hour week, what are you complaining about?

So plug me in for 8 hours straight, I’ll rotate from local to ground to supe as my break. Or radar data, to approach, to supe. Give me a 32 hour work week now if I’m wasting the other half of the shift on break

 

[Spoony90]

So plug me in for 8 hours straight, I’ll rotate from local to ground to supe as my break. Or radar data, to approach, to supe. Give me a 32 hour work week now if I’m wasting the other half of the shift on break

Have you noticed they’ve been assigning more ELMs? And they’re getting harder to “pass”?
I legit feel some bean counter is like “give them more work to do so they don’t get enough breaks”

 

[SolicitSVFR]

Have you noticed they’ve been assigning more ELMs? And they’re getting harder to “pass”?
I legit feel some bean counter is like “give them more work to do so they don’t get enough breaks”

I have never done elms on my own, I make the supe assign it, but yes they’re not click through as much anymore some of them you have to semi pay attention too which is annoying. On cru art we never have people on break for too long, we always have them on non positional duties to make it look like we’re “working”

 

[32andBelow]

Have you noticed they’ve been assigning more ELMs? And they’re getting harder to “pass”?
I legit feel some bean counter is like “give them more work to do so they don’t get enough breaks”

That’s funny some of the new ones have been borderline impossible first try with trick questions

 

[ManBearPig]

Have you noticed they’ve been assigning more ELMs? And they’re getting harder to “pass”?
I legit feel some bean counter is like “give them more work to do so they don’t get enough breaks”

Huh, my trainee hasn't said anything about mine getting more difficult.

 

[Mike Kilo]

I have never done elms on my own, I make the supe assign it, but yes they’re not click through as much anymore some of them you have to semi pay attention too which is annoying. On cru art we never have people on break for too long, we always have them on non positional duties to make it look like we’re “working”

I had an ATM come up and tell me I was behind on elms. I just laughed and pointed at the sup. There is the guy who assigns work….

 

[Spoony90]

I had an ATM come up and tell me I was behind on elms. I just laughed and pointed at the sup. There is the guy who assigns work….

I had a supe tell me to do them on my mid 😂

 

[Atcbrownie]

PATCO argued and lost 40 years ago on the 32 hour work week. In my opinion, 40 hours vs 32 hours doesn't fix the problem. 40 hours or 32 hours still results in 60 hours of work at a lot of facilities. Yes you will get more overtime pay but more pay doesn't fix fatigue. We will lose any argument on fatigue that is based upon pay. What fixes fatigue is a 40 hour work week with no overtime period. Arguing for 32 hours when the agency can't even make 40 hours work is ignorant of the issue at best

How do we get to 40 hours with no overtime? 5000 more CPCs

 

[CoffeeIV]

PATCO argued and lost 40 years ago on the 32 hour work week. In my opinion, 40 hours vs 32 hours doesn't fix the problem. 40 hours or 32 hours still results in 60 hours of work at a lot of facilities. Yes you will get more overtime pay but more pay doesn't fix fatigue. We will lose any argument on fatigue that is based upon pay. What fixes fatigue is a 40 hour work week with no overtime period. Arguing for 32 hours when the agency can't even make 40 hours work is ignorant of the issue at best

PATCO also asked for a giant pay raise along with the 32 hour work week. They could have gotten one or the other probably. Not both.

 

[Atcbrownie]

PATCO also asked for a giant pay raise along with the 32 hour work week. They could have gotten one or the other probably. Not both.

Agreed however, the same problem existed back then. Staffing. Fix staffing and fatigue mostly goes away.

 

[FlightOfTheShortGuy]

PATCO argued and lost 40 years ago on the 32 hour work week. In my opinion, 40 hours vs 32 hours doesn't fix the problem. 40 hours or 32 hours still results in 60 hours of work at a lot of facilities. Yes you will get more overtime pay but more pay doesn't fix fatigue. We will lose any argument on fatigue that is based upon pay. What fixes fatigue is a 40 hour work week with no overtime period. Arguing for 32 hours when the agency can't even make 40 hours work is ignorant of the issue at best

40 hour work week is a random number that people over 100 years ago came up with. Acting like a reduction from 40 hours is nothing is foolish to me. Of course 32 hours doesn’t solve everything but it is something that the agency and union can work towards achieving with no overtime. Right now we’re chasing 40 hours with no OT but that’s archaic. Let’s shoot for 32 hours.

 

[Raise when?]

Cliffs: You are stupid if you aren't on board with a 32 hour FAA work week.

 

[32andBelow]

if you had 18000 controllers averaging 250,000 dollars salary you’d have a total of 4.5 billion per year. In 2022 853 million passengers flew which would be 5.20 Per passenger as an atc fee.

That’s not even counting private flying or international
Flights which could also contribute

Currently there’s a tsa fee of on every ticket that costs 5.60.

Makes you think!!