CRWG

I been at my facility for over 8 years. Stuck in a place I don’t want to be. A thousand miles away from family and friends. Between this and with everything else this “union” is failing to do, I’m out. They haven’t done a single thing for me. Other than to tell me to fuck off when I needed help.
 
Move78 said:
Some numbers went down and some up and some sideways. The amount of available movement is almost the same as it was last month.
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This is so disingenuous. A VAST majority are going up, not some.
Move78 said:
The 4-7s account for a massive majority of the movements. The newer NRP is much more liberal in release criteria. Which will almost certainly get blowback from the ~90%+ of the total of cpcs that aren’t requesting transfers.
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It's the same revolving door tower only facilities releasing. Low level up/downs get skipped over by the academy and watch AGs go directly to facilities CPCs want to go to. Way more CPCs want to transfer but they aren't requesting because they know their facility can't release. There is no reason to put paperwork in when you are years from releasing.
 
Move78 said:
I’d assume you’re an RVP? Speaking with such confidence on behalf of so “many”facilities you don’t work at.

It’s possible these multiple facilities with the exact same ot usage you’re referring to are either: receiving a crwg that’s too high or not calling in ot enough or calling it and no one takes it or not scheduling ot enough or negotiated guidelines too low to compensate for an old crwg that was too low etc.
All of these are debatable btw and Im expressing no opinion here on behalf of facilities I know nothing about. But if you want to change your CRWG you need to hop in a Time Machine and run for FacRep 3 years ago.
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I’m at a middle facility. We have to split factor sectors all day cuz we have too many people but according to them we can’t release anyone. And not it’s going to be even worse.
 
Move78 said:
The 4-7s account for a massive majority of the movements. The newer NRP is much more liberal in release criteria. Which will almost certainly get blowback from the ~90%+ of the total of cpcs that aren’t requesting transfer.
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At VFR towers, yes. Up/downs are sunk. They could fix it by sending academy grads to up/downs by sending people whenever they have no one training in the tower, almost like it’s a separate facility, but they don’t care about making it possible to move.

Move78 said:
The 4-7s account for a massive majority of the movements. The newer NRP is much more liberal in release criteria. Which will almost certainly get blowback from the ~90%+ of the total of cpcs that aren’t requesting transfer.
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How many CPCs don’t even have paperwork in because they know it won’t matter when they can’t release?
 
IndiaKilo said:
Way more CPCs want to transfer but they aren't requesting because they know their facility can't release. There is no reason to put paperwork in when you are years from releasing.
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This is not great strategy. Your FacRep and ATM assume your are fat, dumb and happy at your current facility. Get your ERR paperwork in.
 
Spoony90 said:
I been at my facility for over 8 years. Stuck in a place I don’t want to be. A thousand miles away from family and friends. Between this and with everything else this “union” is failing to do, I’m out. They haven’t done a single thing for me. Other than to tell me to fuck off when I needed help.
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You guys should prolly get more staffing help. Like the IQTR maybe? Or AGs offered 8s?

Bandit117 said:
How many CPCs don’t even have paperwork in because they know it won’t matter when they can’t release?
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We didn’t file because we’re… lazy? It takes 20 minutes. There’s gonna be more than 100 available transfers left on the table next panel cuz a buncha geniuses thought they could see the future.
Not applying for the job you want is utter stupidity.

SquawkHijack said:
We all know that CRWG numbers were determined by the Facreps and ATMs following a very specific workgroup plan. You’re inferring that each facility doomed itself, when in fact they were doing what they were told.
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I’m not inferring they doomed themselves. Im saying they dictated what positions they need to be open at what times. If that means you need more controllers than you need more controllers

TurnSevenDegreesLeft said:
Yeah no recourse. When facreps filled out that survey there was no way they could have known 3 years later it was going to be used against low level facilities like this. The 4-7s are supposed to be facilities where people learn to control traffic, improve skills and then transfer up if they want to progress. Now everyone who has already been trapped for years because of the failures of academy placement and NCEPT just got 3-5 years added to their sentence. I know it's probably hard for someone that works way up in that ivory tower to understand the struggles of people trapped at low levels, but you were there once too and you made it out. Controllers in the trenches now no longer have that opportunity.

There are 85 facilities lvl 8 and under that are under 80% projected staffing. This is not a win, this is a tragedy.
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If you’re going to generalize a cohort the 8-9s have had it much worse than 4-7. Getting stuck and skipped with no inbound demand. They finally send the 8-9s new hires (years too late) to get them healthy enough to release in the future and the 4-7s are mad that the facilities they’re not applying to are finally getting trainees.
And there’s a bunch of 10-12s that have been stuck for longer than the 4-7s
 
Move78 said:
I’m not inferring they doomed themselves. Im saying they dictated what positions they need to be open at what times. If that means you need more controllers than you need more controllers
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My previous facilities situation consisted of a facrep who is the only person who wants to stay there (outside of a couple people retiring within the next 2 years) and an ATM who will do anything the facrep says because he heard it’s good if you’re on good terms with NATCA it could help him leave and get picked up as a sup at the center sooner.

This resulted in our target increasing by 70% and they won’t release for 5+ years now, but at least our facrep might eventually be able to kick his feet up and work data all day.
 
22papa said:
My previous facilities situation consisted of a facrep who is the only person who wants to stay there (outside of a couple people retiring within the next 2 years) and an ATM who will do anything the facrep says because he heard it’s good if you’re on good terms with NATCA it could help him leave and get picked up as a sup at the center sooner.
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Maybe you’re right.
Maybe they’re right.
The decisions are made by those that show up.
22papa said:
This resulted in our target increasing by 70% and they won’t release for 5+ years now, but at least our facrep might eventually be able to kick his feet up and work data all day.
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If it went up that much they should get an influx of trainees. None of which should take 5 years under the NTI. But we all hate that too so maybe we’d rather have 5 year trainees at the 6 up/down?
 
Move78 said:
Maybe you’re right.
Maybe they’re right.
The decisions are made by those that show up.

If it went up that much they should get an influx of trainees. None of which should take 5 years under the NTI. But we all hate that too so maybe we’d rather have 5 year trainees at the 6 up/down?
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They will get a few trainees forced there initially, yes. But then they will be right back in purgatory in the 60% staffing range along with many other facilities CRWG numbers now where only 2-3 per class will be forced to go. It’s basically unrecoverable with the new academy placement style.
 
So what’s the NCEPT group going to do about the wildly inaccurate and artificially inflated average training times caused by COVID since the data is a 7 year rolling average? My facility is a 15-18 month cert time normally but our average says 2.54 years still. Nick Daniels told me to my face some bullshit reason they can’t just start with data in 2022 and beyond because it doesn’t work for places like centers that take 3 years for checkout.
 
Jay-Jay Jet Plane said:
So what’s the NCEPT group going to do about the wildly inaccurate and artificially inflated average training times caused by COVID since the data is a 7 year rolling average? My facility is a 15-18 month cert time normally but our average says 2.54 years still. Nick Daniels told me to my face some bullshit reason they can’t just start with data in 2022 and beyond because it doesn’t work for places like centers that take 3 years for checkout.
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This is not NCEPT but the NTD is a 10 year data set. They moved to 10 to saturate the Covid data. They’re going to go back to 5 once covid is filtered out.
 
Move78 said:
They finally send the 8-9s new hires (years too late) to get them healthy enough to release in the future and the 4-7s are mad that the facilities they’re not applying to are finally getting trainees.
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Again disingenuous. CPCs are applying to those facilities. ABQ, for example, where AGs get a bonus to go to now, had 6 CPC inbounds on file on the last demand sheet. Guess what? Those CPCs, probably from low level facilities, couldn't release.
 
Goody185 said:
Does anyone know where to find the new spreadsheets including the new ETT?
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I emailed asking the same and they said all tools would be posted at 4:30ET but I can’t find it anywhere on the NATCA website. Was hoping someone would say where or post it on here.
 
Golf delta said:
I emailed asking the same and they said all tools would be posted at 4:30ET but I can’t find it anywhere on the NATCA website. Was hoping someone would say where or post it on here.
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Well they specifically said dont go to message boards for any answers, ask Jamaal Haltom.

Maybe he can take time away from his incredibly busy job to get this information to the members lmao.
 

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