Did Nick Daniels propose extending the contract to 2029?

[LennyA21]

The foresight thing is in the past, I can’t explain that obviously.

Why would the agency want to reopen it early ? They don’t obviously . So getting a mutual reopener in case we have a good administration seems like a win to me for where we are at.

The other contracts were up, they have to
neg them or extend. They didn’t extend those, they went to the table. Everyone was happen about that happening for like a day.

I don’t think you understand what the phrase mutual reopener means. Mutual doesn’t mean just us or just them, both have to agree. This is a lose lose for the union and the dumbest thing an RVP has ever made a motion for. It goes to show nick literally lacks the intelligence to do this job. In this proposal both the agency and Natca have to agree to reopen it, if Biden wins the agency doesn’t reopen it, if Trump wins the union won’t open it so it doesn’t get open. It is an extension until 2029 with words that won’t matter motioned by Nick seconded by Clint. Andrew, who’s normally one of nicks people, even saw this as bad and voted against it. The Nick RVPs couldn’t go against their leader though and all supported it.

Exactly this. The more I think about it (and I think I just threw up in my mouth) but maybe NATCA should just get in front of the inevitable and endorse Trump. We got no where with Biden.

The way I see it, guarantee that we can reopen in 2026 and we’ll extend and support you. Don’t guarantee it and we’ll go to Trump.

There is no way to word it to make this a reality. Mutual agreement won’t happen, if one side has the power to reopen it the agency would under management benefitting EOs and we would open it under Biden which would happen anyway with the current expiration date. This motion by Nick made absolutely 0 sense

 

[theflyingpig]

There is no way to word it to make this a reality. Mutual agreement won’t happen, if one side has the power to reopen it the agency would under management benefitting EOs and we would open it under Biden which would happen anyway with the current expiration date. This motion by Nick made absolutely 0 sense

NATCA/FAA agree to extend contract until 2029 with NATCA gaining the rights to “opt out” after 2025. Done

 

[HurryUpandWait]

Feels good to see someone else post what I have been posting; helps me know I'm either not crazy or there's at least one other person as crazy as me. 🤣

And, as a Purple Book BUE:

The other side should be scared of bargaining with NATCA, not the other way around. God forbid we had national representation that acted like it.

At this point I don't know who to be mad at the most: the NEB for being cucks and wanting to extend our lives away, or Rich thinking he can glad-hand and back-slap his way to a Gold Book with Whitaker. Obviously the NEB is worse, but Rich's tactics still reek of mediocrity. PATCO's "Operation Air Safety" is the blueprint to follow, IMO.

I would be careful following PATCOs tactics. They did a lot of great things but they over played their hand with the non-strike tactics resulting in alienation from the pilots union and public support.

Pilots and the public don’t want to get delayed. PATCO pushed everything to a point and pissed everyone off including their own members resulting in a vote no to a great contract offer from the White House.

The best feature PATCO had was their strong backbone and set of kahunas. Our current union could use a touch of what PATCO had.

The worst feature PATCO had was their stubbornness, poor negotiating tactics (had no backup plan, went back on their word after contract agreement with FAA, and internal dysfunction (Poli and the NEB had a shady takeover causing internal turmoil a year before their negotiations)

 

[DADDYSbabyBIRD]

I guess NATCA purposely making the contracts end at certain times in reference to elections so they can say. "You MUST vote this or else!" Has bit us in the butt very hard. We missed out on a prime chance to negotiate for better pay just becuase they wanted to play politics. The whole "most labor friendly administration" thing was and has been a complete joke. Now we are potentially on the verge of just kicking the can down the road again with another boogy man being held over our head. The contract extension was a terrible idea, but we are past that now and must move forward from here. Most labor friendly admin, let's put that to a test and see maybe NATCA?

 

[Whiskey Charlie]

JD has no experience in negotiating a labor contract. He needs to put something out to the masses on why he can get that done. I am waiting for his messaging to everyone.

Clearly our current NEB doesn’t either which is why we’re in this position. Out with them all.

 

[Logical_Mongoose]

I would be careful following PATCOs tactics. They did a lot of great things but they over played their hand with the non-strike tactics resulting in alienation from the pilots union and public support.

Pilots and the public don’t want to get delayed. PATCO pushed everything to a point and pissed everyone off including their own members resulting in a vote no to a great contract offer from the White House.

The best feature PATCO had was their strong backbone and set of kahunas. Our current union could use a touch of what PATCO had.

The worst feature PATCO had was their stubbornness, poor negotiating tactics (had no backup plan, went back on their word after contract agreement with FAA, and internal dysfunction (Poli and the NEB had a shady takeover causing internal turmoil a year before their negotiations)

That's why I mentioned "Operation Air Safety" from the late 60's and not their demise with Reagan: flex your muscle and make them wince, negotiate a solid win, and quickly fortify that position as the new frontline.

If NATCA uses a tactic like that they can improve the contract every time they open it regardless of who is in office. NATCA can/should handle disgruntled pilots for a few months if it means we get some damn raises and staffing improvements. PAC messaging and NATCA PR should have the ability to counter any public disapproval by easily pointing to 60hr weeks and quick turns; they have to be willing and able to bulldog an argument instead of thinking they can win it with "collaboration" and glad-handing. NATCA's focus on relationship building should be with the other aviation unions and not with the FAA.

For those of us under the Purple Book (and Light Blue), which will hopefully have a successful negotiation, NATCA should focus on quick-fixing Article 108 (pay) for us and word it in a way that can be carbon-copied for the Slate Book. NATCA needs to get Purple BUEs a decent win that can be amplified whenever they open the Slate Book. As a Purple BUE, I would happily take a smaller win for myself if it means Slate BUEs can get a bigger win off us in the future (i.e.. Purple Book gets June's Length of Service fixed to ~2.5% and a ~8% raise and bonus upon ratification; Slate Book builds off Purple's L.o.S and gets ya'll 15% raise and bonus). A smaller win for Purple followed by a smaller win for Slate can snowball into vastly more ground gained over the long run rather than looking for a singular "homerun" contract.

But NATCA has to be willing to flex when needed (a la Operation Air Safety) and then also be willing to take 3 steps forward instead of 5 and hold that line. Athens fell because it didn't have the military strength to protect its wealth & influence, Sparta fell because it didn't have the wealth & solidarity to sustain its military. It feels like PATCO met Sparta's end because they pushed too hard and too confidently for what they wanted, and and NATCA is lining up to mirror Athens' end because they think they can influence who they need to get what they want and they aren't willing to push.

 

[twn]

That's why I mentioned "Operation Air Safety" from the late 60's and not their demise with Reagan: flex your muscle and make them wince, negotiate a solid win, and quickly fortify that position as the new frontline.

If NATCA uses a tactic like that they can improve the contract every time they open it regardless of who is in office. NATCA can/should handle disgruntled pilots for a few months if it means we get some damn raises and staffing improvements. PAC messaging and NATCA PR should have the ability to counter any public disapproval by easily pointing to 60hr weeks and quick turns; they have to be willing and able to bulldog an argument instead of thinking they can win it with "collaboration" and glad-handing. NATCA's focus on relationship building should be with the other aviation unions and not with the FAA.

For those of us under the Purple Book (and Light Blue), which will hopefully have a successful negotiation, NATCA should focus on quick-fixing Article 108 (pay) for us and word it in a way that can be carbon-copied for the Slate Book. NATCA needs to get Purple BUEs a decent win that can be amplified whenever they open the Slate Book. As a Purple BUE, I would happily take a smaller win for myself if it means Slate BUEs can get a bigger win off us in the future (i.e.. Purple Book gets June's Length of Service fixed to ~2.5% and a ~8% raise and bonus upon ratification; Slate Book builds off Purple's L.o.S and gets ya'll 15% raise and bonus). A smaller win for Purple followed by a smaller win for Slate can snowball into vastly more ground gained over the long run rather than looking for a singular "homerun" contract.

But NATCA has to be willing to flex when needed (a la Operation Air Safety) and then also be willing to take 3 steps forward instead of 5 and hold that line. Athens fell because it didn't have the military strength to protect its wealth & influence, Sparta fell because it didn't have the wealth & solidarity to sustain its military. It feels like PATCO met Sparta's end because they pushed too hard and too confidently for what they wanted, and and NATCA is lining up to mirror Athens' end because they think they can influence who they need to get what they want and they aren't willing to push.

There is zero push with this union. They seem to be fine getting theirs while the BUEs are living in the real world

 

[Thebullisback]

I like your idea. But let’s be honest this group of misfits doesn’t want to negotiate anything because they don’t want to lose their own push gigs. They all eating like a pig. They ain’t about to give any of that up to risk pissing the FFA off

 

[acutetriangles]

I like your idea. But let’s be honest this group of misfits doesn’t want to negotiate anything because they don’t want to lose their own push gigs. They all eating like a pig. They ain’t about to give any of that up to risk pissing the FFA off

I don’t care about pissing off the Future Farmers of America tbh

 

[Raise when?]

Burn it all down if they dare to try and re-extend this piece of shit contract

 

[HurryUpandWait]

That's why I mentioned "Operation Air Safety" from the late 60's and not their demise with Reagan: flex your muscle and make them wince, negotiate a solid win, and quickly fortify that position as the new frontline.

If NATCA uses a tactic like that they can improve the contract every time they open it regardless of who is in office. NATCA can/should handle disgruntled pilots for a few months if it means we get some damn raises and staffing improvements. PAC messaging and NATCA PR should have the ability to counter any public disapproval by easily pointing to 60hr weeks and quick turns; they have to be willing and able to bulldog an argument instead of thinking they can win it with "collaboration" and glad-handing. NATCA's focus on relationship building should be with the other aviation unions and not with the FAA.

For those of us under the Purple Book (and Light Blue), which will hopefully have a successful negotiation, NATCA should focus on quick-fixing Article 108 (pay) for us and word it in a way that can be carbon-copied for the Slate Book. NATCA needs to get Purple BUEs a decent win that can be amplified whenever they open the Slate Book. As a Purple BUE, I would happily take a smaller win for myself if it means Slate BUEs can get a bigger win off us in the future (i.e.. Purple Book gets June's Length of Service fixed to ~2.5% and a ~8% raise and bonus upon ratification; Slate Book builds off Purple's L.o.S and gets ya'll 15% raise and bonus). A smaller win for Purple followed by a smaller win for Slate can snowball into vastly more ground gained over the long run rather than looking for a singular "homerun" contract.

But NATCA has to be willing to flex when needed (a la Operation Air Safety) and then also be willing to take 3 steps forward instead of 5 and hold that line. Athens fell because it didn't have the military strength to protect its wealth & influence, Sparta fell because it didn't have the wealth & solidarity to sustain its military. It feels like PATCO met Sparta's end because they pushed too hard and too confidently for what they wanted, and and NATCA is lining up to mirror Athens' end because they think they can influence who they need to get what they want and they aren't willing to push.

Well said, kudos.

 

[Foppery&Whim]

The contract is gonna get extended, it's just the NEB bickering on how to disseminate the news to members in a United Front. It's for our own good, if we don't do it Trump will destroy the union, even though thousands may quit due to dissatisfaction. The NEB has no backup plan and it's every man for themselves.

 

[ManBearPig]

The contract is gonna get extended, it's just the NEB bickering on how to disseminate the news to members in a United Front. It's for our own good, if we don't do it Trump will destroy the union, even though thousands may quit due to dissatisfaction. The NEB has no backup plan and it's every man for themselves.

Wouldn't go that far. All of the NEB and current FAA want to go to the table. (The FAA wanting to go to the table is slightly concerning). But, if Trump is elected, we will and probably should extend.

 

[Bandit117]

The problem with this deal is that BOTH have to agree to open it up in 2026. Biden is in office right now and they won't open it, what makes them think if he wins they'll agree to open it up early? If we're looking at historical odds the incumbent wins followed by the other party taking office after 8 years of one party being in charge. So we would have the same contract for 13 years with a high probability of a Republican administration coming into office. Do we extend to 2035 to wait on the next administration? Eventually the Union has to take a stand and stop being scared of who's on the other side.

Natca needs to pushback. Go higher. The faa has bosses

 

[RB]

Natca needs to pushback. Go higher. The faa has bosses

We can't do that, what about

 

[TangoBearFox]

The contract is gonna get extended, it's just the NEB bickering on how to disseminate the news to members in a United Front. It's for our own good, if we don't do it Trump will destroy the union, even though thousands may quit due to dissatisfaction. The NEB has no backup plan and it's every man for themselves.

On the town hall with Aaron and Rich, and yeah they are extending the slate book. They are terrified of Trump winning. We screwed yall, 2029 is when we might have a new contract. Slate book today, Slate book tomorrow, slate book FOREVER!

 

[Periculant]

As the Election grows near, the membership starts to fear,
Nicky, Richie and Mickey; everything seems so tricky,
Lets start a GoFundMe, maybe that's the key!
Here comes the townhalls, just to talk to yall,
But that failed too ,since they won't answer you,
Cherry picking questions, Leaving everyone guessing
The people want a raise, yet leadership seemed amazed,
Razewen became our chant, nobody can tell us we can't,
The union knows, we ain't a bunch of hoes,
Even a whore, would get paid more!
Now we hear about Yachts, maybe ill get a slot
In a facility, they say it's a possibility
We ain't to keen, about these reps on Article 114
details, that always seem to fail.
If Barry Krasner were alive, He would have the drive!
To get us a raise, and we would all give him praise!