Did Nick Daniels propose extending the contract to 2029?

[Nothanks]

Sounds like they chickened out and gave the agency exactly what they wanted. What the hell is the point of even having a union?

What do you want them to do exactly ? They asked for a limited reopener and the agency said no? Elaborate

 

[Mike Kilo]

What do you want them to do exactly ? They asked for a limited reopener and the agency said no? Elaborate

Have some foresight? Not extend it last time? Convince the FAA open it before they were tied up with all the other contact negotiations? Try and reopen it with the other two contracts instead of as an after thought to garner votes? Something like that…

 

[BCHOOSIER]

Heard the NSO RVP had a write-up about this issue in an email last night. Basically, it boils down to this: the Agency doesn't want to re-open the Slate Book during the current Biden Administration and NATCA doesn't want to have to negotiate with a Trump Administration.

The question presented to the NEB was, under various scenarios, what to authorize the NATCA President to do? Extending the CBA to 2029 was not palatable; but, the question then was, what if an extension to 2029 came with an early opener for 2026? Extending to 2029 with an opener for 2026 was a little more palatable... but not by much. The question then was, what if the Agency said "we offer you an extension to 2029 with an opener in 2026 and you must accept by this date or there is no extension," period. Of course, the drop dead date would be prior to the November presidential election. And, that is what the NEB voted to decide.

Quite simply, no one wants to extend the Slate Book to 2029 but the FAA Administrator of "the most friendly labor union President in history" (trademark) won't agree to re-open the Slate Book during the Biden Administration and is very likely to say "take it or leave it" to an extension before elections. This is the disastrous Paul-Trish NATCA (lack of) leadership coming back to bite us in the ass and every single member should be prepared for BOHICA.

The problem with this deal is that BOTH have to agree to open it up in 2026. Biden is in office right now and they won't open it, what makes them think if he wins they'll agree to open it up early? If we're looking at historical odds the incumbent wins followed by the other party taking office after 8 years of one party being in charge. So we would have the same contract for 13 years with a high probability of a Republican administration coming into office. Do we extend to 2035 to wait on the next administration? Eventually the Union has to take a stand and stop being scared of who's on the other side.

 

[Nothanks]

Have some foresight? Not extend it last time? Convince the FAA open it before they were tied up with all the other contact negotiations? Try and reopen it with the other two contracts instead of as an after thought to garner votes? Something like that…

The foresight thing is in the past, I can’t explain that obviously.

Why would the agency want to reopen it early ? They don’t obviously . So getting a mutual reopener in case we have a good administration seems like a win to me for where we are at.

The other contracts were up, they have to
neg them or extend. They didn’t extend those, they went to the table. Everyone was happen about that happening for like a day.

None of this means they can’t preserve your working conditions that we currently have and use an MOU to affect our pay in another way.

Example : 20% ojti mou

 

[ClearanceClarence]

None of this means they can’t preserve your working conditions that we currently have and use an MOU to affect our pay in another way.

Example : 20% ojti mou

Gtfo troll. You won’t even call JD to discuss his positions on things, but you say ridiculous shit like this.

 

[Nothanks]

JD has no experience in negotiating a labor contract. He needs to put something out to the masses on why he can get that done. I am waiting for his messaging to everyone.

 

[TimShady]

Why would the agency want to reopen it early ? They don’t obviously . So getting a mutual reopener in case we have a good administration seems like a win to me for where we are at.

How is a mutual reopener a win if they probably won’t agree to open it? Why would they? It would cost them resources to negotiate and presumably we’d make gains with the new contract.

To me this ultimatum thing is BS. The only options are extend with an option to reopen in 2026 at NATCA’s sole discretion or don’t extend at all and deal with negotiating in 2026 no matter who wins the election. NATCA made their bed when they extended last time into the next election.

 

[Nothanks]

How is a mutual reopener a win if they probably won’t agree to open it? Why would they? It would cost them resources to negotiate and presumably we’d make gains with the new contract.

To me this ultimatum thing is BS. The only options are extend with an option to reopen in 2026 at NATCA’s sole discretion or don’t extend at all and deal with negotiating in 2026 no matter who wins the election. NATCA made their bed when they extended last time into the next election.

Yes let’s fuck our selves over and possibly HAVE to negotiate under Trumps EO’s. I’m not trying to go backwards.

Anyone can say anything they want on the internet. Why doesn’t JD come out with a statement on this and what his plans are ? It’s easy to put a 60 second video together

 

[ClearanceClarence]

JD has no experience in negotiating a labor contract. He needs to put something out to the masses on why he can get that done. I am waiting for his messaging to everyone.

None of the other options have either considering we haven’t negotiated a labor contract in a decade. JD offered to speak with you but you’re obviously just some Santa or Mick or Nick fan girl they sent here to try and push their bullshit.

 

[Mike Kilo]

JD has no experience in negotiating a labor contract. He needs to put something out to the masses on why he can get that done. I am waiting for his messaging to everyone.

I have zero issues with him never having negotiated a contract. The last regime extended one mistakenly. This regime looks to do the same and it will likely put the next contract negotiation in 2029. So why are you so hung up on this issue that will be 5 years away? It might be a completely different evoard again. The guy will have a plethora of NATCA staff as well as a contract negotiating team made up of members as seen in the past. Take that 250k from Ronaldo and spend it on some real lawyers that other unions have used to negotiate in the past.

 

[TimShady]

Yes let’s fuck our selves over and possibly HAVE to negotiate under Trumps EO’s. I’m not trying to go backwards.

Imagine agreeing to this extension with the option to reopen in 2026 and then Biden wins reelection and won’t reopen it in 2026 and we’re stuck until 2029 with a probable incoming Republican admin. NATCA would probably try to extend again!

I’d honestly rather face Trump’s EOs than that scenario. Who cares if they kill the union, it would be ineffective anyway. We can form a new one with the next president revokes the EOs.

 

[Nothanks]

None of the other options have either considering we haven’t negotiated a labor contract in a decade. JD offered to speak with you but you’re obviously just some Santa or Mick or Nick fan girl they sent here to try and push their bullshit.

No ones fan girl

 

[Termine]

Biden is in office right now and they won't open it, what makes them think if he wins they'll agree to open it up early?

According to my RVP, according to Rich, according to Whitaker (so you're getting this like fourth-hand): The FAA is in the middle of negotiating a whole bunch of other contracts at the moment. Two NATCA contracts, the PASS contract, and a handful of others. So they don't have the lawyers and labor-relations people available to also negotiate the Slate Book right now. In 2026 those people will be available.

Not that that's a guarantee the agency will agree to re-open then, but that is the difference between now and 2026 even if Biden wins.

How is a mutual reopener a win if they probably won’t agree to open it? Why would they? It would cost them resources to negotiate and presumably we’d make gains with the new contract.

If people are correct in their predictions that controllers will keep retiring in unprecedented numbers due to poor working conditions, the agency would be smart to open up the contract and try to improve those conditions. Of course any plan which requires the agency to be smart isn't worth the paper it's printed on, but you can always hope.

 

[CaptainObvious]

According to my RVP, according to Rich, according to Whitaker (so you're getting this like fourth-hand): The FAA is in the middle of negotiating a whole bunch of other contracts at the moment. Two NATCA contracts, the PASS contract, and a handful of others. So they don't have the lawyers and labor-relations people available to also negotiate the Slate Book right now. In 2026 those people will be available.

Not that that's a guarantee the agency will agree to re-open then, but that is the difference between now and 2026 even if Biden wins.


If people are correct in their predictions that controllers will keep retiring in unprecedented numbers due to poor working conditions, the agency would be smart to open up the contract and try to improve those conditions. Of course any plan which requires the agency to be smart isn't worth the paper it's printed on, but you can always hope.

These are the same folks who keep trying to squeeze us to make it work with short staffing, then also get mad that we aren’t doing enough extra duties like ELMs or pirep solicitations.

 

[FlightOfTheShortGuy]

How is a mutual reopener a win if they probably won’t agree to open it? Why would they? It would cost them resources to negotiate and presumably we’d make gains with the new contract.

To me this ultimatum thing is BS. The only options are extend with an option to reopen in 2026 at NATCA’s sole discretion or don’t extend at all and deal with negotiating in 2026 no matter who wins the election. NATCA made their bed when they extended last time into the next election.

This is clearly what needs to be done. Like you said, if it’s up to NATCA’s SOLE discretion to open in 2026 then you absolutely take that. But if it’s still up to both parties then I think we take the risk and negotiate a new CBA in 2026 no matter who wins election. We are quite literally too influential on the day to day operations of this country to extend this to 2029. This job will be a complete joke by then.

 

[Sassyquatch]

If people are correct in their predictions that controllers will keep retiring in unprecedented numbers due to poor working conditions, the agency would be smart to open up the contract and try to improve those conditions. Of course any plan which requires the agency to be smart isn't worth the paper it's printed on, but you can always hope.

Orrrrr we have a union that we pay for every single pay period to notice our working conditions, be smart & open our contract to improve those conditions. Oh wait.....

We have a union for a reason & that reason is to be our voice when management takes advantage of us. The FAA is taking advantage of us hardcore and our union is throwing away our dues on open bar tabs, dinner yachts, and Rinaldi's consulting fees (WHY??? To consult us on extending the contract???). Why would the FAA agree to open the contract if they are saving money every year by losing more controllers? Having us work skeleton crews, 20-30 min breaks, 2 hours on, combining positions. We are making it work by working ourselves ragged.

Unfortunately, I totally see the NEB voting to extend the contract again in 2026 if we don't vote the weak ones out. That's why I've made it a point to voice my opinion to my RVP & I think we all need to be contacting them and telling them that we are unhappy with 6 day work weeks, 1.6% raises, and OT always only being 1.5× pay even though we work at least an additional month every single year. We had numerous people work 900 hours of OT last year, most close to 400 at my facility. RVPs are so far removed from the operation, how would they know how fatigued & burnt out we are?

So no, it's not the FAA's responsibility to open the contract, the people who are in charge of paying us & hiring. It's our UNIONS responsibility to fight for us.

 

[theflyingpig]

Imagine agreeing to this extension with the option to reopen in 2026 and then Biden wins reelection and won’t reopen it in 2026 and we’re stuck until 2029 with a probable incoming Republican admin. NATCA would probably try to extend again!

I’d honestly rather face Trump’s EOs than that scenario. Who cares if they kill the union, it would be ineffective anyway. We can form a new one with the next president revokes the EOs.

Exactly this. The more I think about it (and I think I just threw up in my mouth) but maybe NATCA should just get in front of the inevitable and endorse Trump. We got no where with Biden.

The way I see it, guarantee that we can reopen in 2026 and we’ll extend and support you. Don’t guarantee it and we’ll go to Trump.

 

[BCHOOSIER]

According to my RVP, according to Rich, according to Whitaker (so you're getting this like fourth-hand): The FAA is in the middle of negotiating a whole bunch of other contracts at the moment. Two NATCA contracts, the PASS contract, and a handful of others. So they don't have the lawyers and labor-relations people available to also negotiate the Slate Book right now. In 2026 those people will be available.

Not that that's a guarantee the agency will agree to re-open then, but that is the difference between now and 2026 even if Biden wins.

This is where Rich needs to show us his worth as president. Article 108 (Pay) in the purple book for Staff Specialist is the exact same for us in the Slate book. Negotiate it once for the purple book and copy and paste it for Slate book employees. Very little, to no resourses are really needed to get this done. If Whitaker doesn't want to do this, it would show he never had any intentions to open the Slate book early even if he had the resources. It also gives Rich and the Union insight on how he would handle an early request to open the contract in 2026.

 

[Thebullisback]

At this point the union is useless. Of the union dies it dies. At least we will have more controllers cause all the scam artists will have to come back to the boards

 

[Logical_Mongoose]

This is where Rich needs to show us his worth as president. Article 108 (Pay) in the purple book for Staff Specialist is the exact same for us in the Slate book. Negotiate it once for the purple book and copy and paste it for Slate book employees. Very little to no resourses are really needed to get this done. If Whitaker doesn't want to do this, it would show he never had any intentions to open the Slate book early even if he had the resources. It also gives Rich and the Union insight on how he would handle an early request to open on the contract in 2026.

Feels good to see someone else post what I have been posting; helps me know I'm either not crazy or there's at least one other person as crazy as me. 🤣

And, as a Purple Book BUE:

Eventually the Union has to take a stand and stop being scared of who's on the other side.

The other side should be scared of bargaining with NATCA, not the other way around. God forbid we had national representation that acted like it.

At this point I don't know who to be mad at the most: the NEB for being cucks and wanting to extend our lives away, or Rich thinking he can glad-hand and back-slap his way to a Gold Book with Whitaker. Obviously the NEB is worse, but Rich's tactics still reek of mediocrity. PATCO's "Operation Air Safety" is the blueprint to follow, IMO.