AnyTrafficPleaseAdvise
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ZMA had a 10,000 operation day yesterday. Over 3700 active/proposal CIDs at one time
Easiest facilities for every dollar/ hardest facilities for every dollar
- Thread starter Oscar Golf
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ChuckNovember
Trusted Contributor
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I’d like to know what basic math you’re doing when we had a 10,000 count day after an hours-long NAS-fucking groundstop. What center did you previously work at?
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- ZME Memphis Center
Memphis
# of ops ÷ # of CPCs
The busiest TRACONs vastly out work the busiest centers. Sorry you guys had a rough day though. Bet y'all still got a few touch and go's
I.DO.VEHCTAHS
Active Member
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Really exposed N90 with this one
ChuckNovember
Trusted Contributor
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You caught us. We were on hour breaks drinking cuban coffee and playing corn hole in the parking lot. I meant no disrespect before, I had no idea I was talking to a (former) level 12*.
Phillytroll69
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- JNU Juneau Tower
Phillytroll69
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So what formula do we use here? (Total ops) (Pay band) (locality) (-state income tax) (average home price) (national school rating) (girl guy ratio) (subjective points) (average temperature)
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- ZME Memphis Center
If you're so butt hurt about what you make then why not put in for MIA?
Petergraham1
Member
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because then he would lose CIP pay. ZMA gets it and MIA doesn't. #systemisbroken
rhombus
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This will probably be an unpopular opinion but hear me out. If you consider the actual labor you are doing, VFR tower work is much more demanding than radar, with IFR towers somewhere in between.
VFR Tower: When it's busy you're usually standing and moving around. Your scan is a full 360 degrees. You have to deal with the sun and glare. You have to use binoculars and be able to correlate what's out the window with your scope and constantly move your strips. You act as your own approach controller and departure controller while also working the runways and a pattern. The quality of pilot is typically less in a VFR environment as opposed to IFR. The maximum amount of traffic you can work at once is based on your ability and people regularly hit their breaking point.
Radar: You're always sitting, your scan is essentially directly in front of you and whatever strips you are using. Everything is automated. You pretty much know exactly what you're getting and there are built in limits to how much traffic you can work at one time.
Obviously that's an oversimplification but your brain and body are engaged in more ways working at a VFR tower. If you buy that premise it's hard to argue that there is a worse pay/brain cell used than pre-COVID DVT. They were doing more operations/hour than almost every other tower in the country while dealing with mostly student, mostly foreign ESL pilots with zero of the perks of a core-30 airport. You can probably currently say the same about the busiest patterns now (FFZ, PRC, MYF, etc).
VFR Tower: When it's busy you're usually standing and moving around. Your scan is a full 360 degrees. You have to deal with the sun and glare. You have to use binoculars and be able to correlate what's out the window with your scope and constantly move your strips. You act as your own approach controller and departure controller while also working the runways and a pattern. The quality of pilot is typically less in a VFR environment as opposed to IFR. The maximum amount of traffic you can work at once is based on your ability and people regularly hit their breaking point.
Radar: You're always sitting, your scan is essentially directly in front of you and whatever strips you are using. Everything is automated. You pretty much know exactly what you're getting and there are built in limits to how much traffic you can work at one time.
Obviously that's an oversimplification but your brain and body are engaged in more ways working at a VFR tower. If you buy that premise it's hard to argue that there is a worse pay/brain cell used than pre-COVID DVT. They were doing more operations/hour than almost every other tower in the country while dealing with mostly student, mostly foreign ESL pilots with zero of the perks of a core-30 airport. You can probably currently say the same about the busiest patterns now (FFZ, PRC, MYF, etc).
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- SCT SoCal Tracon
Tracons also work vfr hell like that, more than not.
GulfBravoPapa
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Yeah but we get to sit down ?
“Scan is a full 360 degrees, have to deal with sun and glare”. ? some high level trolling lmao
HenryTheAce
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Funny you mention DVT because a guy who was at DVT for 10+ years came to my core 30 easy high level TRACON and he said it’s night and day…. TRACON is way harder and talks how he misses the easy tower days.
rhombus
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“Squawk xxxx”. Oh look, there he is
HappyController
Member
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worst last mile drive might be the truest thing i've ever read on these forums
worst last mile drive might be the truest thing i've ever read on these forums
how did you get these numbers, is it by target CPC? Onboard CPC? do you know how many positions they have?
Respected Path
Member
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Ya'll want to take this into the bathroom and tell us who in winner of your argument is?
Phillytroll69
Forum Sage
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- JNU Juneau Tower
No I already drive an f150 raptor to a job where I sit all day. For those guys doin 360s it's a nice truck
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- Facility
- ZME Memphis Center
Available CPC from the PPT (NCEPT)
It's the current CPC number minus Long term holds and temps.
They don't carry positions on a national level as far as I'm aware.
jdatc
Legendary Member
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- 670
Wait, do we also correlate cars in the parking lot to country club facilities in addition to cost of living, top, traffic worked, etc?
Also, does a facility lose points for every granola snacking controller’s Tesla in the parking lot? Ooh, what about facilities with covered parking.
I don’t care how many ops you work, that’s the winner. Unless you have to ride the train into the terminal to work after parking. That shit should be disqualifying.
