Enhanced CTI

[Sassyquatch]

My point was that people have terrible days in training during ojt where if it had been a sim run in the academy they would have lost enough points to wash.

There does need to be some sort of weeding out but the academy does a terrible job in my opinion.

I highly agree. I've been saying for years that the academy grading structure should be changed. Why are the practice Sims not counted towards anything? They should be. Especially when someone could struggle at the start but have close to perfect practice SIM runs towards the end but could still fail from one terrible run during the last 3 days of evals. The opposite could be true, where someone starts out good and increasingly does worse but then passes the academy. I've seen it firsthand of someone really good in the running to be #1 and bombing their last eval and barely making it.

When someone gets to their facility, they don't lose their job if they have 1 or 2 stressful bad days after just 2 months of training. OJT covers the entirety of their training and a cert is based off months of someone making mistakes, learning from them, and becoming better over time. I get it that academy evals are supposed to measure how someone does under an immense amount of pressure but shit happens and trainees shouldn't be penalized as harshly for 1 bad run.

 

[Phillytroll69]

And what’s a degree from one of these places cost? People probably gonna go $80-100K in debt for a job with already mediocre pay just to skip MMAC. Imagine someone going through this just to end up at a level 4 making $80K CPC.

After they cancel the program for lack of diversity....again

 

[Spoony90]

After they cancel the program for lack of diversity....again

Diversity? Like they care. I’m first generation American. 100 percent Mexican. And I’m facing 14 day suspension because I hung up the phone on a supe while a deal was happening in his sector. And also has a history of fucking up and badgering controllers. And yea he’s blue eyed white guy.

 

[Rx]

Diversity? Like they care. I’m first generation American. 100 percent Mexican. And I’m facing 14 day suspension because I hung up the phone on a supe while a deal was happening in his sector. And also has a history of fucking up and badgering controllers. And yea he’s blue eyed white guy.

You better fight that shit

 

[RadarRick]

The issue with the old CTI program, is they let it explode to like 30+ schools with very little oversight. The only actual requirements to get a CTI degree were like an A/C ID class, and an Aviation weather class. All the sims at UND/Beaver/Riddle didn't matter when some community college can get you the CTI recommendation in 3 classes.

With proper oversight, and limited expansion, it could be a helpful program. All the last one turned into was a scam for colleges to take advantage of people that heard about an ATC Hiring Shortage, with Bullshit curriculums and very limited instruction.

 

[32andBelow]

The issue with the old CTI program, is they let it explode to like 30+ schools with very little oversight. The only actual requirements to get a CTI degree were like an A/C ID class, and an Aviation weather class. All the sims at UND/Beaver/Riddle didn't matter when some community college can get you the CTI recommendation in 3 classes.

With proper oversight, and limited expansion, it could be a helpful program. All the last one turned into was a scam for colleges to take advantage of people that heard about an ATC Hiring Shortage, with Bullshit curriculums and very limited instruction.

There was an alternate plan to hire more from the good schools. They were going to be weighted based on their capabilities and I think prior base rates at the academy. but they scrapped that and went with the bioQ nightmare

 

[Phillytroll69]

Diversity? Like they care. I’m first generation American. 100 percent Mexican. And I’m facing 14 day suspension because I hung up the phone on a supe while a deal was happening in his sector. And also has a history of fucking up and badgering controllers. And yea he’s blue eyed white guy.

This is such a good bait. But nbcafe really did get the cti program cancelled

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

Hoeven: UND Submits Application to Enhanced ATC Training Program, Plans to Begin Program in Spring 2025 Semester | U.S. Senator John Hoeven of North Dakota

 

[32andBelow]

Has anyone said how long these programs are supposed to be? Will they be accelerated intense programs? Or just lolly gag for a couple years?

 

[Somenewguy]

I highly agree. I've been saying for years that the academy grading structure should be changed. Why are the practice Sims not counted towards anything? They should be. Especially when someone could struggle at the start but have close to perfect practice SIM runs towards the end but could still fail from one terrible run during the last 3 days of evals. The opposite could be true, where someone starts out good and increasingly does worse but then passes the academy. I've seen it firsthand of someone really good in the running to be #1 and bombing their last eval and barely making it.

When someone gets to their facility, they don't lose their job if they have 1 or 2 stressful bad days after just 2 months of training. OJT covers the entirety of their training and a cert is based off months of someone making mistakes, learning from them, and becoming better over time. I get it that academy evals are supposed to measure how someone does under an immense amount of pressure but shit happens and trainees shouldn't be penalized as harshly for 1 bad run.

The current grading system is a compromise because it used to be one eval pass/fail for LC and GC and one retake if you mess it up. I think the current system does a lot more to weed out people who shouldn't be controllers than remove qualified candidates from the field. But could be wrong, I often am.

 

[Expectvectors24]

I certified at a level 12 Tracon after being at a not 12 l ever 5 up downs. I don’t care if people want to talk about that, I did the work. A 12 Tracon is probably the most insane working conditions you can imagine. These people are People certainly didn’t welcome me with open arms. But god damn I can tell stories how many people mis-stepped their own arrival at higher levels thinking they would make it on pure ability

 

[dingalings99]

I certified at a level 12 Tracon after being at a not 12 l ever 5 up downs. I don’t care if people want to talk about that, I did the work. A 12 Tracon is probably the most insane working conditions you can imagine. These people are People certainly didn’t welcome me with open arms. But god damn I can tell stories how many people mis-stepped their own arrival at higher levels thinking they would make it on pure ability

 

[Hallock36]

“These people are people…”.

Well said.

 

[Move78]

These fucking people are people, people!

 

[Spoony90]

I certified at a level 12 Tracon after being at a not 12 l ever 5 up downs. I don’t care if people want to talk about that, I did the work. A 12 Tracon is probably the most insane working conditions you can imagine. These people are People certainly didn’t welcome me with open arms. But god damn I can tell stories how many people mis-stepped their own arrival at higher levels thinking they would make it on pure ability

Who gave Joe Biden a .65 account?

 

[Ad1234]

And what’s a degree from one of these places cost? People probably gonna go $80-100K in debt for a job with already mediocre pay just to skip MMAC. Imagine someone going through this just to end up at a level 4 making $80K CPC.

one of the first two schools approved is Tulsa community, it would cost you under 15k in state, around 20 out of state for 4 semesters of time. find me another job with that considerably small investment that nets you the compensation package that we receive including pay, medical, pension, tsp match, overall working conditions.


just dont go to embry riddle, simple as that. yes i am a cti, yes i moved states to attend that cti and only spent around 11k in tuition, yes i moved states once i got hired. so i know what it might entail and the realities of my ROI. and its pretty darn good compared to the amount needed to achieve this level in another profession.

 

[GulfCharlie]

one of the first two schools approved is Tulsa community, it would cost you under 15k in state, around 20 out of state for 4 semesters of time. find me another job with that considerably small investment that nets you the compensation package that we receive including pay, medical, pension, tsp match, overall working conditions.


just dont go to embry riddle, simple as that. yes i am a cti, yes i moved states to attend that cti and only spent around 11k in tuition, yes i moved states once i got hired. so i know what it might entail and the realities of my ROI. and its pretty darn good compared to the amount needed to achieve this level in another profession.

Advanced ATC, not knocking the CTI path, nets you a CTO for 50k and one year training time. After that you move towards the contract world for 52 weeks exp because they are partnered with (I want to say) SERCO.

 

[TangoBearFox]

Advanced ATC, not knocking the CTI path, nets you a CTO for 50k and one year training time. After that you move towards the contract world for 52 weeks exp because they are partnered with (I want to say) SERCO.

I've known at least 5 controllers who went through Advancted ATC the majority were very competent. That really should be the standard I believe.

 

[GulfCharlie]

I've known at least 5 controllers who went through Advancted ATC the majority were very competent. That really should be the standard I believe.

I did it back in 2011 (aged 21) and graduated at 2012 (age 22). Rough time though trying to get hired (Sequester, Bio-Q, then finally the first direct to facility announcement). Regardless I would not change a thing.

 

[TushingPin]

Advanced ATC, not knocking the CTI path, nets you a CTO for 50k and one year training time. After that you move towards the contract world for 52 weeks exp because they are partnered with (I want to say) SERCO.

I don't believe they are officially partnered with SERCO, but I do know that serco is desperate enough to hire them at their slower towers.