FAA Diversity: For anybody in denial.....

[PooseMaGoose]

Then they sure as hell are bad at it.

Yeah those pesky anti-discrimination laws really do get in the way of the “liberal utopia”…

Well there are numerous organizations dedicated to advancement of (race, sex, gender) BECAUSE of underrepresentation in the past.

It isn't wrong and white males don't need one. If you feel like they do make one and see how many people join.

So 35.9% were minority. 'White' is just under 60% of population. Still another 5% to go to even be close to equitable representation.

Women and men are almost 50/50, yet hiring was only at 20% female. Another HUGE discrepancy.

WE HAVE TO DO BETTER

We have to do better? I assume you’re JUST as outwardly virtuous when it comes to fixing sports teams that are 90% black despite black people only being 13% of the population… or how about early childhood education where 95% of educators are female. Care to fix that too? How about brick layers? 99% men. Omg women are underrepresented!!! We must do better.

Serious question… why is it a problem to NOT have “equitable representation” when people have the freedom of choice? Seriously… why does group representation matter for skin color/sex etc?

 

[Phillytroll69]

Yeah those pesky anti-discrimination laws really do get in the way of the “liberal utopia”…



We have to do better? I assume you’re JUST as outwardly virtuous when it comes to fixing sports teams that are 90% black despite black people only being 13% of the population… or how about early childhood education where 95% of educators are female. Care to fix that too? How about brick layers? 99% men. Omg women are underrepresented!!! We must do better.

Serious question… why is it a problem NOT to have “equitable representation” when people have the freedom of choice? Seriously… why does group representation matter for skin color/sex etc?

Couple of quick facts.

Sports are for profit. Bricklayers are for profit. (women's & gender studies | Kampf Writing Prize: Title.) Link to some teacher info, tldr teaching is more female because it appeals to females more. And people previously weren't discriminated against en masses for being male.

Couple of places didn't even have female controllers until the 90s.

In a government for the people by the people equal representation is important. It's not just controllers they are talking about.

Go form a white male coalition of federal employees if you think the targets are wrong. Surely there's enough fellow Andrew tate listeners to join and make an impact.
You don't feel driven to do that because there doesn't need to be one. Meanwhile we have Black, Hispanic, women, etc...just in the aviation community.


Go pop on another podcast about the destruction of white males in America hurr durr and throw away your bud light.

Or start a coalition if you sincerely feel its gone too far-im sure there are at least 5 other people in the agency that would agree

 

[PooseMaGoose]

Couple of quick facts.

Sports are for profit. Bricklayers are for profit. (women's & gender studies | Kampf Writing Prize: Title.) Link to some teacher info, tldr teaching is more female because it appeals to females more. And people previously weren't discriminated against en masses for being male.

Couple of places didn't even have female controllers until the 90s.

In a government for the people by the people equal representation is important. It's not just controllers they are talking about.

Go form a white male coalition of federal employees if you think the targets are wrong. Surely there's enough fellow Andrew tate listeners to join and make an impact.
You don't feel driven to do that because there doesn't need to be one. Meanwhile we have Black, Hispanic, women, etc...just in the aviation community.


Go pop on another podcast about the destruction of white males in America hurr durr and throw away your bud light.

Or start a coalition if you sincerely feel its gone too far-im sure there are at least 5 other people in the agency that would agree

Great job avoiding my question. I will ask it again. Why is it so important for organizations or governments to LOOK like the body they represent or operate within?

 

[Phillytroll69]

Great job avoiding my question. I will ask it again. Why is it so important for organizations or governments to LOOK like the body they represent or operate within?

Booted up the pc to type this out.

Representation: When the composition of an organization or government reflects the diversity of its populace, it helps ensure that the interests and needs of various demographic groups are considered and addressed. This representation is crucial for fostering a sense of inclusion and equity, as it suggests that all segments of society have a voice in decision-making processes.

Legitimacy and Trust: People are more likely to trust and support institutions that they feel represent them. When citizens see themselves reflected in their leaders and institutions, it can enhance the perceived legitimacy of those bodies, leading to greater public support and cooperation.

Diverse Perspectives: A diverse group of decision-makers brings a wide range of perspectives, experiences, and ideas to the table. This diversity can lead to more innovative solutions to problems, as well as policies that are more responsive to the complex needs of a diverse population.

Social Cohesion: By promoting diversity within governing bodies and organizations, societies can work towards reducing social divisions and tensions. This inclusivity helps to build social cohesion and a sense of unity, as all groups feel they are part of the societal fabric.

Equity and Justice: Reflecting the demographics of a population in governance and organizational structures is a step towards addressing historical injustices and systemic inequalities. It's a way to ensure that opportunities for leadership and influence are accessible to all segments of society, not just a privileged few.

Performance and Competitiveness: For organizations, diversity is not just a matter of social responsibility but also a strategic advantage. Diverse teams have been shown to outperform homogenous ones because they can leverage a broader range of skills, insights, and approaches to problem-solving.

 

[Soul_Controller]

fixing sports teams that are 90% black despite black people only being 13% of the population

This is the funny thing though. You'll assume meritocracy out of the current system when very few things are actually meritocratic. The NFL has a disproportionate number of black players, but Mfers are pretty much just now coming around to the idea that athletic black dudes can be successful at QB. They are still fucking up on the coaching front.

 

[acutetriangles]

When you think about it, white men are really the ones being persecuted here…

 

[PooseMaGoose]

Booted up the pc to type this out.

Representation: When the composition of an organization or government reflects the diversity of its populace, it helps ensure that the interests and needs of various demographic groups are considered and addressed. This representation is crucial for fostering a sense of inclusion and equity, as it suggests that all segments of society have a voice in decision-making processes.

Legitimacy and Trust: People are more likely to trust and support institutions that they feel represent them. When citizens see themselves reflected in their leaders and institutions, it can enhance the perceived legitimacy of those bodies, leading to greater public support and cooperation.

Diverse Perspectives: A diverse group of decision-makers brings a wide range of perspectives, experiences, and ideas to the table. This diversity can lead to more innovative solutions to problems, as well as policies that are more responsive to the complex needs of a diverse population.

Social Cohesion: By promoting diversity within governing bodies and organizations, societies can work towards reducing social divisions and tensions. This inclusivity helps to build social cohesion and a sense of unity, as all groups feel they are part of the societal fabric.

Equity and Justice: Reflecting the demographics of a population in governance and organizational structures is a step towards addressing historical injustices and systemic inequalities. It's a way to ensure that opportunities for leadership and influence are accessible to all segments of society, not just a privileged few.

Performance and Competitiveness: For organizations, diversity is not just a matter of social responsibility but also a strategic advantage. Diverse teams have been shown to outperform homogenous ones because they can leverage a broader range of skills, insights, and approaches to problem-solving.

Exactly what I thought.... "diverse perspectives.." "diverse populace represents the interests and needs of different groups.." blah blah blah....

Dude seriously think about it. To advocate for racial diversity and make organizational decisions based on increasing or decreasing numbers based on cosmetic groups means you concede that people bring different things to the table because of their skin color. To concede that peoples' skin color dictates what they bring to the table means you view any particular race as homogenous... You literally just said that we get diverse perspectives and representation for the needs of demographic groups by ensuring members of those groups are equally represented.

By trying to diversify by skin color (or anything besides merit for that matter) you are saying that people of the same skin color offer the same thing and the differences between people exist between the racial groups you force them into, not the individual... this is literally the underpinning idea of racism. You think because somebody is a certain skin color, they represent the thought and interest of all people that have that skin color.... aka all black people are the same to you. All white people are the same to you. People are individuals before they are a member of a group.

And as for your notion of representative democracy in government... just more proof that you are a racist. For example, the best way to represent the interests and ideas of black people as a group is to assume that one black person represents the mindset of the group as a whole, aka you assume black people are all the same and therefore are capable of being represented by anybody in that group that shares the same appearance.

Representation does not have to take on the physical appearance of what it represents... think about money for example... Money is extremely homogenous. Yet it can represent a bag of apples, a car, your labor, your time, a house....

So thank you for showing everybody what you really are.. a well-meaning racist who thinks all people of any particular group think the same thereby dictating that only a member of a demographic group could possibly represent or understand the monolithic thought of said group.

teaching is more female because it appeals to females more.

p.s. This is exactly correct....... different things appeal to different people. Aviation is one of those things that statistically appeals more to men... yet here you are saying "Women and men are almost 50/50, yet hiring was only at 20% female. Another HUGE discrepancy. WE HAVE TO DO BETTER".

You played yourself, clown.

 

[32andBelow]

p.s. This is exactly correct....... different things appeal to different people. Aviation is one of those things that statistically appeals more to men... yet here you are saying "Women and men are almost 50/50, yet hiring was only at 20% female. Another HUGE discrepancy. WE HAVE TO DO BETTER".

You played yourself, clown.

Or maybe it was the long history of pilots going from the military to the airlines.

 

[Phillytroll69]

p.s. This is exactly correct....... different things appeal to different people. Aviation is one of those things that statistically appeals more to men... yet here you are saying "Women and men are almost 50/50, yet hiring was only at 20% female. Another HUGE discrepancy. WE HAVE TO DO BETTER".

You played yourself, clown.

....no...Jeannie Marie Leavitt (née Flynn; born c. 1967) is a retired United States Air Force (USAF) general officer. She became the U.S. Air Force's first female fighter pilot in 1993,

Women prior to 1993 didn't want to fly fighters? Perhaps there was some other obstacle....

Zny first female post patco controller wasn't til the mid 90s....must be no Women are interested in air traffic

Exactly what I thought.... "diverse perspectives.." "diverse populace represents the interests and needs of different groups.." blah blah blah....

Dude seriously think about it. To advocate for racial diversity and make organizational decisions based on increasing or decreasing numbers based on cosmetic groups means you concede that people bring different things to the table because of their skin color. To concede that peoples' skin color dictates what they bring to the table means you view any particular race as homogenous... You literally just said that we get diverse perspectives and representation for the needs of demographic groups by ensuring members of those groups are equally represented.

By trying to diversify by skin color (or anything besides merit for that matter) you are saying that people of the same skin color offer the same thing and the differences between people exist between the racial groups you force them into, not the individual... this is literally the underpinning idea of racism. You think because somebody is a certain skin color, they represent the thought and interest of all people that have that skin color.... aka all black people are the same to you. All white people are the same to you. People are individuals before they are a member of a group.

And as for your notion of representative democracy in government... just more proof that you are a racist. For example, the best way to represent the interests and ideas of black people as a group is to assume that one black person represents the mindset of the group as a whole, aka you assume black people are all the same and therefore are capable of being represented by anybody in that group that shares the same appearance.

Representation does not have to take on the physical appearance of what it represents... think about money for example... Money is extremely homogenous. Yet it can represent a bag of apples, a car, your labor, your time, a house....

So thank you for showing everybody what you really are.. a well-meaning racist who thinks all people of any particular group think the same thereby dictating that only a member of a demographic group could possibly represent or understand the monolithic thought of said group.

So the fact that the boomers were washing people out because of race and told all their white kids what a great job this means we shouldn't have outreach programs to socioeconomic and under represented groups?

By not using statistics for race and gender how do you end up with an almost all white workforce?

I have to re read this
Dude seriously think about it. To advocate for racial diversity and make organizational decisions based on increasing or decreasing numbers based on cosmetic groups means you concede that people bring different things to the table because of their skin color. To concede that peoples' skin color dictates what they bring to the table means you view any particular race as homogenous... You literally just said that we get diverse perspectives and representation for the needs of demographic groups by ensuring members of those groups are equally represented.


No I'm saying that generations and generations of society discriminated against people for their skin color. When two people are tied on merit, it wad always the white male hired.....for decades.

I'm not saying that everyone of a certain skin color is homogenous.

I'm saying looking at numbers and ensuring that past generational mistakes don't occur moving forward is important.

 

[Phillytroll69]

Ope I'll go to prison if I drink out of this water fountain in the mall after serving in ww2 and vietnam

Minorities must not be thirsty

Ope he must be resisting arrest

Let's also not forget that regardless of which boss is elected this fall they all were there when these laws and events were happening. So some sort of metric is needed to hold people accountable because this isn't some ancient history...it's recent and it's still here.

You haven't had pizza drivers and embry riddle grads be successful? Ive trained both to be successful. Why should the guy that grew up and got into a good school be given a shot when the guy who had to start working at 14 and had to help provide for his younger siblings not.

Merit? In this job that's a video game test apparently.

Don't forget it wasn't until 2008ish when everyone had a right to secondary education. I'm sure your next question is why didn't slaves just leave the plantations and go to Harvard for an education.

 

[PooseMaGoose]

....no...Jeannie Marie Leavitt (née Flynn; born c. 1967) is a retired United States Air Force (USAF) general officer. She became the U.S. Air Force's first female fighter pilot in 1993,

Women prior to 1993 didn't want to fly fighters? Perhaps there was some other obstacle....

Zny first female post patco controller wasn't til the mid 90s....must be no Women are interested in air traffic


So the fact that the boomers were washing people out because of race and told all their white kids what a great job this means we shouldn't have outreach programs to socioeconomic and under represented groups?

By not using statistics for race and gender how do you end up with an almost all white workforce?

I have to re read this
Dude seriously think about it. To advocate for racial diversity and make organizational decisions based on increasing or decreasing numbers based on cosmetic groups means you concede that people bring different things to the table because of their skin color. To concede that peoples' skin color dictates what they bring to the table means you view any particular race as homogenous... You literally just said that we get diverse perspectives and representation for the needs of demographic groups by ensuring members of those groups are equally represented.


No I'm saying that generations and generations of society discriminated against people for their skin color. When two people are tied on merit, it wad always the white male hired.....for decades.

I'm not saying that everyone of a certain skin color is homogenous.

I'm saying looking at numbers and ensuring that past generational mistakes don't occur moving forward is important.

Way to back track... "looking at numbers moving forward is important" ... You just typed out clearly how you think people are truly only capable of representing others who look like them.

It sure sounded like you started out advocating for organizations to directly influence the racial makeup of their workforce/population based solely on counting beans to make sure we have the precise numbers matching across the board.... but you can't say that now right? Because that is hiring based on racial preference.

Nobody is saying that past injustices didn't take place.... We are all equal under the law and the constitution and unequal outcomes or disparities in racial numbers on their own in no way automatically constitute discrimination or inequality no matter how much you want it to.

It's just funny that you and brainwashed people like you think the answer to historical discrimination is MORE discrimination. How bout no you crazy bastard?

 

[Phillytroll69]

Way to back track... "looking at numbers moving forward is important" ... You just typed out clearly how you think people are truly only capable of representing others who look like them.

It sure sounded like you started out advocating for organizations to directly influence the racial makeup of their workforce/population based solely on counting beans to make sure we have the precise numbers matching across the board.... but you can't say that now right? Because that is hiring based on racial preference.

Nobody is saying that past injustices didn't take place.... We are all equal under the law and the constitution and unequal outcomes or disparities in racial numbers on their own in no way automatically constitute discrimination or inequality no matter how much you want it to.

It's just funny that you and brainwashed people like you think the answer to historical discrimination is MORE discrimination. How bout no you crazy bastard?

You just typed out clearly how you think people are truly only capable of representing others who look like them.

No I think plenty of plantation owners represented black slaves. Probably not in their best interest, but that is not what I said.

I said that, as a whole, counting beans (as you so eloquently refer to it) is the best way to ensure discrimination is NOT happening during the hiring process. I said that reaching out to people who don't know about this job is important because the mostly white well to do workforce for generations tells their mostly white well to do friends and that's even before we get into nepotism.

I think that the answer to historical discrimination is TIME (as boomers die off) and ensuring it is not tolerated in the agency and making EVERYONE aware of the opportunity and ensuring that nepotism and discrimination don't take place.

Where is their more likely to be an atc booth....inner city Chicago or a ritzy neighborhood in Palm beach? That'd be an extreme example but the best controller of the next generation could be dropping out of his after school stem activities to work a part time job because of finances right now.

If you're going to ask why didn't he just go be an air traffic controller in the past

Oscar Wayman Holmes Jr. (1916-2001) •

Oscar Wayman Holmes Jr., the first African American commissioned officer in the United States Navy and its first black aircraft pilot, was also the first black air traffic controller. Born January 31, 1916, he was the son of Oscar Sr. and Grace Holmes of Dunbar, … Read MoreOscar Wayman Holmes...

www.blackpast.org

 

[PooseMaGoose]

I think that the answer to historical discrimination is TIME (as boomers die off) and ensuring it is not tolerated in the agency and making EVERYONE aware of the opportunity and ensuring that nepotism and discrimination don't take place.

If you think the answer to historical racial discrimination is ensuring it is not tolerated in the agency and ensuring it isn't taking place, then why do you support current policy that utilizes discrimination on the basis of race?

It doesn't matter how justified you think it is or how much you think you are advocating on behalf of historical injustice... you are a proponent of exactly what you claim to disagree with from history (only difference is you are just conveniently swapping the groups around and hiding behind your self-inflated sense of virtue). I feel bad for you man. Seriously. You mean well but you are just so damn blind.

 

[Phillytroll69]

If you think the answer to historical racial discrimination is ensuring it is not tolerated in the agency and ensuring it isn't taking place, then why do you support current policy that utilizes discrimination on the basis of race?

Can you please post the policy

 

[PooseMaGoose]

Can you please post the policy

FAA DEIA Strategic Plan FY2021-2025....

"Nine steps to consider for FAA D&I initiatives:

1) compile data of your workforce;
2) identify needs and/or areas of concern;
3) address policies or practices that affect diversity, equity, and inclusion;
4) identify business objectives;
5) procure buy-in and support from senior-level management;
6) implement initiatives like changes in policies and practices, targeted recruiting, employment-sponsored diversity, equity, and inclusion awareness events;
7) communicate initiatives;
8.)measure and disseminate outcomes; and
9) review and adjust as needs and the workforce change."

Here's just some examples of what im talking about...

-the FAA's Minority Serving Institution Internship program which targets African Americans, Hispanics, Asian Americans, Native Americans, Women.. virtually any group but white men.

-HBCU initiative program aimed to recruit students into the agency based on racial preference

-Airport Disadvantaged Business Enterprise Program... provides preference for FAA/DOT contracts to small business owned by.. yupppp you guessed it... basically anybody but white men.


The legal jargon which underpins these programs is specifically written to skirt the lines of EEO and anti-discrimination laws, but in practice, they provide preference and access based solely on skin/gender. It's effectively college affirmative action for the FAA/DOT... speaking of which.. remember how affirmative action was struck down as unconstitutional because it sought to benefit groups based on race and gender?

***pikachu shocked face***

 

[skykid11]

If you think the answer to historical racial discrimination is ensuring it is not tolerated in the agency and ensuring it isn't taking place, then why do you support current policy that utilizes discrimination on the basis of race?

It doesn't matter how justified you think it is or how much you think you are advocating on behalf of historical injustice... you are a proponent of exactly what you claim to disagree with from history (only difference is you are just conveniently swapping the groups around and hiding behind your self-inflated sense of virtue). I feel bad for you man. Seriously. You mean well but you are just so damn blind.

Are you even a controller?

 

[Somenewguy]

When you think about it, white men are really the ones being persecuted here…

I think any critical and learned person of American history would agree: if any one group were to be considered the most discriminated against, it's the white male.

If you can't tell this is sarcastic, there is no helping you.

If you think the answer to historical racial discrimination is ensuring it is not tolerated in the agency and ensuring it isn't taking place, then why do you support current policy that utilizes discrimination on the basis of race?

It doesn't matter how justified you think it is or how much you think you are advocating on behalf of historical injustice... you are a proponent of exactly what you claim to disagree with from history (only difference is you are just conveniently swapping the groups around and hiding behind your self-inflated sense of virtue). I feel bad for you man. Seriously. You mean well but you are just so damn blind.

Let's put it like this. We start a game of monopoly. There are two white players, one male and one female. Two black players, one male and one female.

For the first 10 turns, the white player is the only one who collects cash as they go around the board, and the only one who can buy property. For the next ten turns, the white woman gets the same treatment. Ten turns later, the black players are allowed to participate.

It is no longer a fair game if everyone gets the exact same every time around the board moving forward from this point, because some players are starting at a disadvantage. When we look at a population of an entire country, these advantages and disadvantages don't necessarily apply to every single individual, but we can make look at trends within groups of people to identify those who have been given more opportunities to succeed.

There are systemic barriers in place that do not allow some players to succeed with the same ease that other players do. Yes, some players white players have disadvantages and some black and women players have advantages - but at its core, a group of people being disenfranchised is the problem our society is attempting to fix. We want to ensure that even though people are starting at different places, we can all be allowed a chance to succeed. And it's not an easy problem, and it's not a perfect solution. We cant start the game over now, we have to do the best with what we can.

Pretending everyone is on equal footing when this country was built by slaves and we have many people who lived through segregation still living today is delusional.

 

[Phillytroll69]

FAA DEIA Strategic Plan FY2021-2025....

"Nine steps to consider for FAA D&I initiatives:

1) compile data of your workforce;
2) identify needs and/or areas of concern;
3) address policies or practices that affect diversity, equity, and inclusion;
4) identify business objectives;
5) procure buy-in and support from senior-level management;
6) implement initiatives like changes in policies and practices, targeted recruiting, employment-sponsored diversity, equity, and inclusion awareness events;
7) communicate initiatives;
8.)measure and disseminate outcomes; and
9) review and adjust as needs and the workforce change."

Here's just some examples of what im talking about...

-the FAA's Minority Serving Institution Internship program which targets African Americans, Hispanics, Asian Americans, Native Americans, Women.. virtually any group but white men.

-HBCU initiative program aimed to recruit students into the agency based on racial preference

-Airport Disadvantaged Business Enterprise Program... provides preference for FAA/DOT contracts to small business owned by.. yupppp you guessed it... basically anybody but white men.


The legal jargon which underpins these programs is specifically written to skirt the lines of EEO and anti-discrimination laws, but in practice, they provide preference and access based solely on skin/gender. It's effectively college affirmative action for the FAA/DOT... speaking of which.. remember how affirmative action was struck down as unconstitutional because it sought to benefit groups based on race and gender?

***pikachu shocked face***

Yes there is ONE avenue that excludes white males. I do think it's important because (maybe still, maybe just in the past) there has been an under representation. It's not ONLY white males. There's ONE avenue that's not open to white males. It's ONE thing aimed at getting people. Is it fair? I don't know go ask the Supreme Court but it sure does need to be there.

You can zoom in on this ONE avenue but until someone with the same qualifications as you gets hired and race is the deciding factor nome of this will have any impact on you or others. Also the application allows you to opt out of that information I think.

https://www.faa.gov/jobs/students/internships

 

[AnyTrafficPleaseAdvise]

RAZE WEN

 

[Raise when?]

RAZE WEN

Raze SUUUN!! But Raze HAU???