FAA Diversity: For anybody in denial.....

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Imagine this leads to increase in washouts filing EEO complaints in order to continue their careers when they have no business in ATC. (Aka Austin)

John Scully said it best "When you are flying, do you want to rest easy in the comfort that the pilots, crews, and controllers working your flight are the best in their field, fully qualified to get you to your destination safely? Or are you mainly concerned that controllers and pilots best represent the color, gender, orientation, or belief system of America in the most equitable way possible while they are vectoring your flight into a mountain?"
 
Yes there is ONE avenue that excludes white males. I do think it's important because (maybe still, maybe just in the past) there has been an under representation. It's not ONLY white males. There's ONE avenue that's not open to white males. It's ONE thing aimed at getting people. Is it fair? I don't know go ask the Supreme Court but it sure does need to be there.

You can zoom in on this ONE avenue but until someone with the same qualifications as you gets hired and race is the deciding factor nome of this will have any impact on you or others. Also the application allows you to opt out of that information I think.


Let's put it like this. We start a game of monopoly. There are two white players, one male and one female. Two black players, one male and one female.

For the first 10 turns, the white player is the only one who collects cash as they go around the board, and the only one who can buy property. For the next ten turns, the white woman gets the same treatment. Ten turns later, the black players are allowed to participate.

It is no longer a fair game if everyone gets the exact same every time around the board moving forward from this point, because some players are starting at a disadvantage. When we look at a population of an entire country, these advantages and disadvantages don't necessarily apply to every single individual, but we can make look at trends within groups of people to identify those who have been given more opportunities to succeed.

There are systemic barriers in place that do not allow some players to succeed with the same ease that other players do. Yes, some players white players have disadvantages and some black and women players have advantages - but at its core, a group of people being disenfranchised is the problem our society is attempting to fix. We want to ensure that even though people are starting at different places, we can all be allowed a chance to succeed. And it's not an easy problem, and it's not a perfect solution. We cant start the game over now, we have to do the best with what we can.

Pretending everyone is on equal footing when this country was built by slaves and we have many people who lived through segregation still living today is delusional.

Yawn. You guys are all so predictable and honestly unoriginal. Always moving the goal posts the entire way through your regurgitated talking points..

“Racial discrimination throughout history is bad…”
“racial discrimination isn’t happening today…”
“Oh ok maybe it’s happening but it’s not that much…”
“Actually, due to systemic barriers and privilege it’s necessary that we racially discriminate to create equity.”

Fucking give us all a break. I’ll make it real simple for you.

1. ZERO people are claiming past injustices didn’t happen.

2. ZERO people are “pretending everybody is on equal footing”

3. Racial discrimination is either good or it’s bad. You cannot have it both ways.. hint, it’s bad no matter what purpose you’re using it for or no matter how good your intentions are.

4. Everybody deserves a chance to succeed. We can either create EQUALITY under the law and treat everybody the same, or try to generate EQUITY aka equal outcomes… you cannot have both. It’s impossible. If you have equality of people, you will encounter different end results. If you try to enforce equity in outcomes (like you assclowns are talking about) you must treat people differently therefore wrecking equality.

5. You’re trying to “correct for history”… aka righting past wrongs. Giving opportunity to people who look like other people who were wronged in the past…You must destroy the fabric of a free and equal society in order to do this (equal under the law not equal on the starting line).

There’s so much more to say on it but I’ll just ask you this, and I truly want an honest fair answer.. I’m genuinely asking:

To what end? …When have the wrongs been righted? When and how do we determine sufficient special treatment to ‘correct for the past’? What is that measure.

I’d sincerely like an answer to that.
 
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Yawn. You guys are all so predictable and honestly unoriginal. Always moving the goal posts the entire way through your regurgitated talking points..

“Racial discrimination throughout history is bad…”
“racial discrimination isn’t happening today…”
“Oh ok maybe it’s happening but it’s not that much…”
“Actually, due to systemic barriers and privilege it’s necessary that we racially discriminate to create equity.”

Fucking give us all a break. I’ll make it real simple for you.

1. ZERO people are claiming past injustices didn’t happen.

2. ZERO people are “pretending everybody is on equal footing”

3. Racial discrimination is either good or it’s bad. You cannot have it both ways.. hint, it’s bad no matter what purpose you’re using it for or no matter how good your intentions are.

4. Everybody deserves a chance to succeed. We can either create EQUALITY under the law and treat everybody the same, or try to generate EQUITY aka equal outcomes… you cannot have both. It’s impossible. If you have equality of people, you will encounter different end results. If you try to enforce equity in outcomes (like you assclowns are talking about) you must treat people differently therefore wrecking equality.

5. You’re trying to “correct for history”… aka righting past wrongs. Giving opportunity to people who look like other people who were wronged in the past…You must destroy the fabric of a free and equal society in order to do this (equal under the law not equal on the starting line).

There’s so much more to say on it but I’ll just ask you this, and I truly want an honest fair answer.. I’m genuinely asking:

To what end? …When have the wrongs been righted? When and how do we determine sufficient special treatment to ‘correct for the past’? What is that measure.

I’d sincerely like an answer to that.
And you’re so original just parroting the Fox News outrage of the week?
 
Yawn. You guys are all so predictable and honestly unoriginal. Always moving the goal posts the entire way through your regurgitated talking points..

“Racial discrimination throughout history is bad…”
“racial discrimination isn’t happening today…”
“Oh ok maybe it’s happening but it’s not that much…”
“Actually, due to systemic barriers and privilege it’s necessary that we racially discriminate to create equity.”

Fucking give us all a break. I’ll make it real simple for you.

1. ZERO people are claiming past injustices didn’t happen.

2. ZERO people are “pretending everybody is on equal footing”

3. Racial discrimination is either good or it’s bad. You cannot have it both ways.. hint, it’s bad no matter what purpose you’re using it for or no matter how good your intentions are.

4. Everybody deserves a chance to succeed. We can either create EQUALITY under the law and treat everybody the same, or try to generate EQUITY aka equal outcomes… you cannot have both. It’s impossible. If you have equality of people, you will encounter different end results. If you try to enforce equity in outcomes (like you assclowns are talking about) you must treat people differently therefore wrecking equality.

5. You’re trying to “correct for history”… aka righting past wrongs. Giving opportunity to people who look like other people who were wronged in the past…You must destroy the fabric of a free and equal society in order to do this (equal under the law not equal on the starting line).

There’s so much more to say on it but I’ll just ask you this, and I truly want an honest fair answer.. I’m genuinely asking:

To what end? …When have the wrongs been righted? When and how do we determine sufficient special treatment to ‘correct for the past’? What is that measure.

I’d sincerely like an answer to that.
I didn't move the goalposts.

The end is when a workforce is equally accessible regardless of race, sex, ethnicity, religious background, who your dad is. I believe it should be merit based with equal opportunity in relation to working traffic. And it has NOT been. And based on 'counting beans' still is not. Sorry you're upset about ONE program to VARIOUS routes in the agency. Luckily they even have a program for you as well
 
And you’re so original just parroting the Fox News outrage of the week?
I’d say I’m original enough that you’re not even staying on topic anymore and just resorting to sophomoric half assed comments. I’ll take that as a “I don’t have anything good to say to that so I’ll talk about Fox News… that’ll show him.”

I didn't move the goalposts.

The end is when a workforce is equally accessible regardless of race, sex, ethnicity, religious background, who your dad is. I believe it should be merit based with equal opportunity in relation to working traffic. And it has NOT been. And based on 'counting beans' still is not. Sorry you're upset about ONE program to VARIOUS routes in the agency. Luckily they even have a program for you as well
Well I guess we’ve made it then and we can stop caring about racial makeup….

Equally accessible regardless of race sex ethnicity religious background…. Um yeah it is that way. Right now.

Merit based with equal opportunity… ok yeah check.

DEI is the antithesis of the two points you just laid out genius.

Because the end numbers don't PERFECTLY reflect how society looks, you assume some sort of immoral discrimination and systemic barrier shit? The only thing that has an end result that perfectly reflects societal makeup is the census. Hockey must be discriminatory because African Americans are underrepresented, teaching must be because men are underrepresented, aircraft maintenance since women are underrepresented etc etc etc.

You promote the idea equal opportunity and meritocracy yet at the same time advocate on behalf of policy that provides UNEQUAL opportunity on the basis of color.

Make it make sense. Liberalism is a mental disorder.

Imagine getting this mad because the FAA is trying to hire more people who don't look like you

Imagine giving unequal treatment to people based solely on the color of their skin and thinking you’re on the right side of history.
 
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I’d say I’m original enough that you’re not even staying on topic anymore and just resorting to sophomoric half assed comments. I’ll take that as a “I don’t have anything good to say to that so I’ll talk about Fox News… that’ll show him.”


Well I guess we’ve made it then and we can stop caring about racial makeup….

Equally accessible regardless of race sex ethnicity religious background…. Um yeah it is that way. Right now.

Merit based with equal opportunity… ok yeah check.

DEI is the antithesis of the two points you just laid out genius.

Because the end numbers don't PERFECTLY reflect how society looks, you assume some sort of immoral discrimination and systemic barrier shit? The only thing that has an end result that perfectly reflects societal makeup is the census. Hockey must be discriminatory because African Americans are underrepresented, teaching must be because men are underrepresented, aircraft maintenance since women are underrepresented etc etc etc.

You promote the idea equal opportunity and meritocracy yet at the same time advocate on behalf of policy that provides UNEQUAL opportunity on the basis of color.

Make it make sense. Liberalism is a mental disorder.



Imagine giving unequal treatment to people based solely on the color of their skin and thinking you’re on the right side of history.
...no its not equal because college is still not equally accessible and the cti program basically stopped diversity. So lets stop cti (thats what they did)
There is a balance between ots, cti, and va hiring but the reactionary nature of the government failed to find balance
Continuing to find ways to measure aptitude, advertise to people (who for some reason don't know about this job) and ensuring the equal opportunity is what's important.

I'm done engaging with you because when they cancelled the cti program people took it to court. It's (the case) still going on.

If this ONE program is discriminatory file a complaint or call a lawyer.

Liberalism is a mental disease? Your Jimmies probably got all rustled when they said Jesus might not want children being shredded by razorwire at the border. I can hear you now after 3 beers, there wasn't even a Mexico when Jesus was around, why don't Mexicans just get better jobs there. Your faux Maga Christian sidelined white male is why you don't have tinder matches. Hit the gym, lawyer up, and go after this if it is clearly unfair and preventing you from getting hired. Unless this is the new hire thread you're barking up the wrong tree
 
...no its not equal because college is still not equally accessible and the cti program basically stopped diversity. So lets stop cti (thats what they did)
There is a balance between ots, cti, and va hiring but the reactionary nature of the government failed to find balance
Continuing to find ways to measure aptitude, advertise to people (who for some reason don't know about this job) and ensuring the equal opportunity is what's important.

I'm done engaging with you because when they cancelled the cti program people took it to court. It's (the case) still going on.

If this ONE program is discriminatory file a complaint or call a lawyer.

Liberalism is a mental disease? Your Jimmies probably got all rustled when they said Jesus might not want children being shredded by razorwire at the border. I can hear you now after 3 beers, there wasn't even a Mexico when Jesus was around, why don't Mexicans just get better jobs there. Your faux Maga Christian sidelined white male is why you don't have tinder matches. Hit the gym, lawyer up, and go after this if it is clearly unfair and preventing you from getting hired. Unless this is the new hire thread you're barking up the wrong tree

"When people get used to preferential treatment, equal treatment seems like discrimination." -Thomas Sowell

Thank you for showing everybody your true colors. I’ll pray for you. God bless.
 
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it's sad people take positions based off their stupid political "side" lol. this shouldn't be a political issue, clearly what's happening is wrong, prioritizing anything except safety is wrong, but since it aligns with their political "side" they have to defend it to the death even if it's illogical af.
 
it's sad people take positions based off their stupid political "side" lol. this shouldn't be a political issue, clearly what's happening is wrong, prioritizing anything except safety is wrong, but since it aligns with their political "side" they have to defend it to the death even if it's illogical af.

Textbook cognitive dissonance.
 
The disagreement here isn't whether prioritizing anything except safety is wrong, it's whether prioritizing diversity *deprioritizes* safety.

I personally think we can accomplish both.
The FAA itself concedes it makes the system more unsafe, it’s a matter of how much risk they want to assume as a result of prioritizing diversity. This is my understanding, is this incorrect?

I don’t necessarily disagree with your last sentence fwiw, but I am adamant that standards should not be “lessened” for anyone.

Bruh they hire people with 3 years of McDonald’s and ppl are like we need to keep our standards as such for safety. Give me a break.
Someone’s prior occupation has no bearing on their aptitude as a controller…..it’s a skill that can be learned and honed based off of one’s innate abilities.
 
Bruh they hire people with 3 years of McDonald’s and ppl are like we need to keep our standards as such for safety. Give me a break.

The FAA staffs about 45,000 employees which means for every single controller, there are 2-3 people working in some other capacity as part of a complex, interdependent safety organization as a whole: Pilots, engineers, medical officers, lawyers, accident investigators, mathematicians/physicists/operational researchers, maintenance technicians, tech ops, flight standards... on and on.

Virtually every other safety professional of the 30,000 non-ATC in this agency is recruited, evaluated, and hired using means that are not synonymous with ATC and require specific education and/or highly specific and relevant previous experience. ATC is unique in the sense that we can "hire people with 3 years Mcdonald's experience" and certify them granted their aptitude is up to par.

The world is much grander and more complex than what we see in our tiny little radar rooms and towers. You come off as a guy who doesn't look much beyond his hood ornament as he drives down the highway, but that's just a hunch based off of the wild shit you say.
 
The FAA staffs about 45,000 employees which means for every single controller, there are 2-3 people working in some other capacity as part of a complex, interdependent safety organization as a whole: Pilots, engineers, medical officers, lawyers, accident investigators, mathematicians/physicists/operational researchers, maintenance technicians, tech ops, flight standards... on and on.

Virtually every other safety professional of the 30,000 non-ATC in this agency is recruited, evaluated, and hired using means that are not synonymous with ATC and require specific education and/or highly specific and relevant previous experience. ATC is unique in the sense that we can "hire people with 3 years Mcdonald's experience" and certify them granted their aptitude is up to par.

The world is much grander and more complex than what we see in our tiny little radar rooms and towers. You come off as a guy who doesn't look much beyond his hood ornament as he drives down the highway, but that's just a hunch based off of the wild shit you say.
We’re the only profession that hires this way and we have a massive washout rate.
 
It means we wee horrendous at selecting. Do even this many brain surgeons washout?

If you fairly compare each process from start to finish I’d bet my third nut that the attrition rate for undergrad > med school > residency > surgeon fellowship is wayyyy higher than OKC > OJT. Speculation though.

They are different beasts so it’s tough to compare pipelines. And I’d also bet that air traffic has a much higher percentage of absolute retards compared to brain surgeons haha
 
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