Someone said something about it being to attract transfers. That wasn’t the original intent, maybe that’s the intent now. I’m not really sure. What about that makes you so angry?
Facility Downgrades / Upgrades
- Thread starter Controller87
- Start date
This is untrue
PHLs upgrade was codified in the N90 MOU
NATCA looking out for their handful of preferred facilities and ignoring everyone else.
ManBearPig
Forum Sage
- Messages
- 608
N90ATCA
You saying that it wasn't the original intent implies that you know what the original intent was, and when someone asked you told them to ask their RVP. When you said they should ask their RVP that implies that you don't actually know what the intent was and you were just spouting off.
Idk what CIP was intended for and would like to know but I'm also not gonna waste my time asking around cause I really just don't care enough about that. So if you do know it would be cool to hear it
SquawkHijack
Forum Sage
- Messages
- 626
Mind being a bit more specific?
- Messages
- 2,218
- Facility
- N90 New York Tracon
Does it really take a whole TCI panel to see that 2 11’s, a 9, 2 5’s and whatever satellites PHL has would become a 12 when combined into one facility? This just shortened the time for back pay.
ajmezz
Forum Sage
- Messages
- 959
Aap.faa.gov, tcip then find it under the reports tab.
32andBelow
Legendary Member
- Messages
- 10,584
CIP is irrelevant when they negotiated a transfer program where everyone just begs to transfer for free.
A
ATC Zero
Guest
There’s a lot of black holes that would be happy to get CIP. Just because people are begging to transfer for free (that’s a placement issue) doesn’t mean NATCA couldn’t redo the list.
If a facility has 50 ERR’s into it they don’t need CIP….DEN.
inthrewtheoutdor
Trusted Contributor
- Messages
- 101
Believe CIP had its roots "Pay Demo" from earlier contracts. Here's Cliff notes I made from the NATCA book "Into the wind"
8/1/1993
4 year contract ratified. Like PATCO, NATCA found ways to increase pay since pay negotiations weren't legally negotiable.
In addition to the congressionally mandated 5 percent operational differential that The union built into its latest contract, about 2,100 controllers enjoyed a 20 percent bonus as part of a five-year Pay Demonstration Project.
"Pay Demo" - The premium was designed to attract and retain controllers at hard-to-staff facilities known in the profession as “The Magnificent Seven:” Chicago Center; O’Hare Tower/TRACON; New York Center and TRACON; Los Angeles Tower/TRACON; Coast TRACON in Santa Ana; and Bay TRACON in Northern California.
Flight Standards district offices in Los Angeles, Teterboro, New Jersey, and Farmingdale and Valley Stream, New York, also received the bonus.
8/1/1993
4 year contract ratified. Like PATCO, NATCA found ways to increase pay since pay negotiations weren't legally negotiable.
In addition to the congressionally mandated 5 percent operational differential that The union built into its latest contract, about 2,100 controllers enjoyed a 20 percent bonus as part of a five-year Pay Demonstration Project.
"Pay Demo" - The premium was designed to attract and retain controllers at hard-to-staff facilities known in the profession as “The Magnificent Seven:” Chicago Center; O’Hare Tower/TRACON; New York Center and TRACON; Los Angeles Tower/TRACON; Coast TRACON in Santa Ana; and Bay TRACON in Northern California.
Flight Standards district offices in Los Angeles, Teterboro, New Jersey, and Farmingdale and Valley Stream, New York, also received the bonus.
Soul_Controller
Forum Sage
- Messages
- 497
There is section in the TCIP website that literally shows who is above the breakpoint for an upgrade. I assume neither vegas is up there.
Mike Kilo
Legendary Member
- Messages
- 3,015
LAS was within 6 points or so of the breakpoint last time I checked but hadn’t exceeded it. Not sure about the Tracon.
Golf delta
Trusted Contributor
- Messages
- 92
One of the best things they could do along with other differentials. If they can’t raise our base with the extended contract then add a bunch of extras. Make the people working the room everyday earn 50% more. That’ll push more people away from staff jobs, A114, intentionally losing medicals, etc and make breaks and leave better for the people actually working.
Yes it definitely does because that concept very much doesn’t guarantee 12. In PHLs case it’ll definitely be a 12. And they’ll get that bump earlier than the rest of the country would have because the rest of the country are fucking losers who don’t deserve the special treatment that Eastern always carves out for itself.
LAS/L30 have not been above the threshold for some time. Zs don’t have a valid TCI value until ABACUS is done
SquawkHijack
Forum Sage
- Messages
- 626
I mean, I get that but ZJX is ranked number 3 when you look at raw total annual traffic. However the agency and NATCA choose to digest the data and interpret it to an upgrade is what it is, but I guess we’ll wait for ABACUS to conclude.
And I toured LAS and L30 in 2023 and both their facrep(s) and several sups had said they had been above the buffer. Not pointing fingers but there’s conflicting info about them then.
Last edited:
Raw traffic is only part of a formula that dictates facility pay level. They’re definitely probably getting screwed. If they were eastern this shit woulda got fixed long ago. I was just pointing out your post was wrong information.
The buffer is not relevant for upgrades and sewing circle rumors from the locals are not relevant for anything.
