FRC Question

[Homsar]

Strip prints out, amendment 1, FRC in the remarks. This is the first iteration of the strip, the A/C has not had their clearance given yet.

Obviously you issue the full route of fixes to destination, but when it comes time for the altitude, is saying "climb via the SID" enough, or does the FRC mandate that you have to give them their final altitude as well?

Had this come up with a Supe and a CPC-IT the other day, looking for other opinions. I don't see where the final altitude is required to be read reading the .65, the Supe was on the other side, saying "you don't know what the center changed on the strip, so the final should be read." My argument against that is that route/altitude can't be changed in the same Amendment on the FDIO (to my knowledge), so if that were the case, it would have printed out as Amendment 2.

 

[redko0laid]

Strip prints out, amendment 1, FRC in the remarks. This is the first iteration of the strip, the A/C has not had their clearance given yet.

Obviously you issue the full route of fixes to destination, but when it comes time for the altitude, is saying "climb via the SID" enough, or does the FRC mandate that you have to give them their final altitude as well?

Had this come up with a Supe and a CPC-IT the other day, looking for other opinions. I don't see where the final altitude is required to be read reading the .65, the Supe was on the other side, saying "you don't know what the center changed on the strip, so the final should be read." My argument against that is that route/altitude can't be changed in the same Amendment on the FDIO (to my knowledge), so if that were the case, it would have printed out as Amendment 2.

Dependens on the if the SID had a top altitude or not, both altitude and route can definitely be changed in the same amendment

 

[Mike Kilo]

I issue the final altitudes. Seems a small thing to eliminate ambiguity.

 

[MikeDelta]

You can change all fields in a single amendment. 06 [Origin] 09 [Altitude] 10 [route]↓

 

[Turn Right or Die]

I don't believe an altitude amendment generates a change number...

 

[ajmezz]

Altitude change does generate a change number.

 

[Homsar]

Dependens on the if the SID had a top altitude or not, both altitude and route can definitely be changed in the same amendment

The SID in this case did have a top altitude, but I've never seen both changed in one amendment. Usually generates an error when you amend 09 and 10 in the same line. I've seen 6-7-10s, obviously, but never a 9-10.

 

[Stinger]

Altitude change does generate a change number.

Correct. Altitude change doesn't automatically print out a new strip like a route change does though.

 

[MikeDelta]

The SID in this case did have a top altitude, but I've never seen both changed in one amendment. Usually generates an error when you amend 09 and 10 in the same line. I've seen 6-7-10s, obviously, but never a 9-10.

When you do a 9-10 amendment you need to add 6 [point of origin] and a ↓ [down arrow] at the end of the route, and it will go through just fine.

 

[Turn Right or Die]

Correct. Altitude change doesn't automatically print out a new strip like a route change does though.

I'm pretty sure you won't get a "1" below the callsign when you only change an altitude (RAL). Testing tomorrow tho. Terminal.

 

[ajmezz]

Amending the altitude gives you the revision number under the callsign. Like stinger said, it won’t print out a new strip, just a strip that you amended the alt. So you have to SR it to see the number. We do it daily so it’s something I’m familiar with but try it at your facility. Not sure if it is that way across the board or not.

 

[CaptainObvious]

When you do a 9-10 amendment you need to add 6 [point of origin] and a ↓ [down arrow] at the end of the route, and it will go through just fine.

No you don’t. 7,9,10 can all be changed without a field 6 as long as it’s not an airborne aircraft. Also you don’t need a down arrow to force the route

 

[Turn Right or Die]

Confirmed, RAL change does not generate a change number at 3 out of 4 towers I checked with. Maybe it's a setting...

 

[ajmezz]

Confirmed, RAL change does not generate a change number at 3 out of 4 towers I checked with. Maybe it's a setting...

Yeah that seems to be the case. This is my first tower with a fdio so it’s gotta be along those lines. Thanks for the update.

 

[DankVectorz]

Speaking of FDIO, is there any controller anywhere that figured out the proper way to handle ambiguous elements?

 

[Stinger]

Speaking of FDIO, is there any controller anywhere that figured out the proper way to handle ambiguous elements?

I saw ambiguous element so rarely that when it did show up, I just kept trying different versions of 6 10 amendments and up and down arrows. I had it figured out, but I haven't needed FDIO skills for a while now.
Have you looked at the FDIO user manual? It's at www.inet.atctraining.faa.gov
Then click on terminal and it'll take you to a page with reference manuals. FAA computers only though.

 

[DankVectorz]

I saw ambiguous element so rarely that when it did show up, I just kept trying different versions of 6 10 amendments and up and down arrows. I had it figured out, but I haven't needed FDIO skills for a while now.
Have you looked at the FDIO user manual? It's at www.inet.atctraining.faa.gov
Then click on terminal and it'll take you to a page with reference manuals. FAA computers only though.

I saw it a few times when I was at KPAM but we rarely use FDIO at my current place. Used to do the same thing you did whenever we did have them lol

 

[Stinger]

Confirmed, RAL change does not generate a change number at 3 out of 4 towers I checked with. Maybe it's a setting...

I thought it did, but I can't say for certain. Don't know if it's a setting that can be changed either.

 

[Stinger]

I saw it a few times when I was at KPAM but we rarely use FDIO at my current place. Used to do the same thing you did whenever we did have them lol

For a 6 7 10 amendment, I stopped using the 7 time field. I shortcut to a 6 10 for airborne aircraft because I guess it assumes "time now" if there's nothing there.

 

[MJ]

Ambiguous element means the computer can’t ascertain where to merge the old and new routing. That’s why you use the up/down arrows to append (cut out) the old route.