Holding a Stop and Go

[Shikaka]

Out of curiosity, how do you guys feel about holding a stop and go in position on the stop to allow a preceding aircraft time to exit. SRS was met, two single props.

 

[ATC_av8er]

I mean, I think it is TECHNICALLY illegal, but I may or may not have done this once or twice at prior facilities...

 

[RH316]

You can used reduced Rwy sep if they’re both full stops. Cat 1 to Cat 1 3000 feet. If the guy behind the guy landing is a stop and go, that’s illegal. That’s a deal bro.

 

[CaptainObvious]

I’ve done it before. “Cleared stop and go, I’ll call your departure roll for traffic”

Legality of it I’m not sure but it’s not unsafe

 

[Phillyman2633]

I've been clearing DAL for the option for years...still waiting for one to do anything but full-stop

 

[yup]

From the .65...
3–8–2. Consider an aircraft cleared for stop-and-go as an arriving aircraft until it comes to a complete stop, and thereafter as a departing aircraft.
3–9–6. Separate a departing aircraft from a preceding departing or arriving aircraft using the same runway by ensuring that it does not begin takeoff roll until: b. a preceding landing aircraft is clear of the runway.

I'm only at the academy myself, but that seems pretty clear, legally speaking. You can say it's safe if you tell the departure to delay departure roll until the arrival is clear, but it's not legal.

 

[boots]

Got em

 

[arHuFf69]

I’ve said “Unable stop and go, cleared to land, I’ll call your departure on the runway” multiple times just this week.

 

[Phillyman2633]

I'm only at the academy myself, but that seems pretty clear, legally speaking.

 

[Robert_Boucher]

To be legal you can safe RWYXX cleared to land hold on the runway I'll call your departure. Then RWYXX cleared for take off.

 

[DL0509]

From the .65...
3–8–2. Consider an aircraft cleared for stop-and-go as an arriving aircraft until it comes to a complete stop, and thereafter as a departing aircraft.
3–9–6. Separate a departing aircraft from a preceding departing or arriving aircraft using the same runway by ensuring that it does not begin takeoff roll until: b. a preceding landing aircraft is clear of the runway.

I'm only at the academy myself, but that seems pretty clear, legally speaking. You can say it's safe if you tell the departure to delay departure roll until the arrival is clear, but it's not legal.

Just telling him to delay his departure roll isn't positive separation. You actually have to call his departure roll or issue a take off clearance for it to be legal.

 

[Shikaka]

So at this point, as usual, it's the semantics of either cleared stop and go with tower calling the go, or cleared to land and hold position pretty much....

 

[DankVectorz]

So at this point, as usual, it's the semantics of either cleared stop and go with tower calling the go, or cleared to land and hold position pretty much....

This is what happens when regs are written by lawyers

 

[Stinger]

So at this point, as usual, it's the semantics of either cleared stop and go with tower calling the go, or cleared to land and hold position pretty much....

Basically. I've always done "cleared to land and I'll call your departure."
I've also done "cleared stop-and-go, but don't stop until beyond taxiway A4." That stopping point gives more than 3,000 feet available for a full-stop Cat 1 aircraft to land behind the stop-and-go.

 

[Mc15]

You can used reduced Rwy sep if they’re both full stops. Cat 1 to Cat 1 3000 feet. If the guy behind the guy landing is a stop and go, that’s illegal. That’s a deal bro.

So just say cleared to land I'll call your go

 

[FoggyWindow]

"cleared stop-and-go, but don't stop until beyond taxiway A4."

I don't think this is legal. It works, I'm sure, but I don't think it'd hold up in court.

 

[Super Salt]

I don't think this is legal. It works, I'm sure, but I don't think it'd hold up in court.

How about including “if able” in the transmission?
Such as: “If able, land long” or “If able, land and hold short...”

Those are some of my personal faves.

 

[Gern Blanston]

Had a trainer tell me 20+ years ago that "some things are safe, but technically illegal, however you need to do them to move planes. Just make sure you can back it up if it gets investigated." That was good advice, but his best advice was "Do what your career can withstand." Lol.

 

[PushingTin]

I’ve said “Unable stop and go, cleared to land, I’ll call your departure on the runway” multiple times just this week.

This. If you know the rules you can creatively work around them and be legal. Kinda like paper stops and throwing in "expect no delay" or a careful tactful non-solicitation (but really solicitation) of canceling IFR. Same w some of the over the top opposite direction cutoffs. "I have your request" for ODO, but delaying the control instruction, strip marking, data block update, etc. long enough to get away w it! That said...its fun watching someone really good who is really loose w certain rules, with 100% certainty that it will work because they're really good & will always make it work. Just dont let your trainee do some BS becasue "they did it in the Air Force" lol