people in glass houses shouldnt throw rocks. yes it seems likely this person made some noise, but when you say something behind closed doors and arent willing to go all the way....its a toothless attempt. my opinion, this person knew of all the shit that everyone did and had that ammunition in his back pocket, so they swept it under the rug. the being on your phone, the lates, the rule breaking at the scope. all that stupid little shit everyone does but this person took notes and when confronted by your toothless complaint, he said hed take it all down because he sucks and management and the union want no part in that.
Holding Controllers Accountable
- Thread starter PointSixty5stalker
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Jake Sully
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I can’t speak for the quality of new trainees because I’m not at an an academy fed facility, I’m sure there’s a big difference in training a CPC IT vs an AG. But again a decent trainer does not push people through. I have a good track record with my trainees both military and FAA because I like training. Building a trainees confidence is a big part of it and most people don’t have the tools or patience for it.
doodii
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Idk if other facilities do this, but how about there’s local standards of volume and complexity written in local SOPs pertaining to the individual facility? I asked this question a while back *at my facility* and it fell on deaf ears. It would hold every single OJTI to the same standard and would give some sort of scope on when to properly recommend someone.
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32andBelow
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There is actually a good thing in the new training order. You can send them back to the lab and they can actually be reevaluated in the lab and possibly washed out if they can’t pass the extra problems. But that’s probably more of a center thing than a tower thing. Takes some of the pressure off the training team and puts it back on the training department and sups.
It also seems like sups are going from being old controllers who worked that area for years and years to random transfers that get certified in 1 sector and don’t really know what’s going on and they are giving check rides
It also seems like sups are going from being old controllers who worked that area for years and years to random transfers that get certified in 1 sector and don’t really know what’s going on and they are giving check rides
doodii
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Isn't this just defined as "SET"?
32andBelow
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There’s 2 levels now. There’s a second level called skill development training. And you can actually fail that
doodii
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Ah, okay. Well, I'm hoping the couple people at my facility don't fail that. They're hard-working individuals that actually want to do the job, and do it well.
32andBelow
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Well you only get sent to it if you’re not doing well. There’s still regular SET training
this is what people think the only reason is and then treat the trainee this way. its fucked up. SDT can and should be used when the trainee isnt doing bad also or just needs to maybe see something they havent. so all the time that people complain about the NTI and not seeing traffic, if they have access to a SIM or other training methods, controllers can be assigned SDT so they can see more complex or busier traffic. that way, you can feel comfortable documentaing their deficiences, knowing there is an avenue where they can work them out.
32andBelow
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Im trying to explain that there’s 2 different levels now. Before there was only the one
and before you still could have been assigned SET when you were doing just fine. but instead if you got it, you must be doing bad. or trainer thought they only had that option when they were doing bad. its a huge misunderstanding of the order and was used as a last ditch effort to pretend to show you did all you could in some cases.
doodii
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I was assigned SET my first time learning a final, cuz for some reason, the only thing my brain could not process was opposing bases. I have no idea how or why I couldn’t absorb a simple concept, but my trainer 4 years ago asked our contractors to run sims on me. Yeah, I was bummed about it, but being pummeled in a final sim where he required me to run opposing bases correctly GREATLY benefited me. We used something similar called EDIT in the USAF. It was looked at as such a negative thing, but it ultimately helped us target specific items or issues a trainee/developmental was having. It’s a powerful tool if utilized correctly.
When people match the, uh, "criteria" for EEO complaints and know that they can lawyer up when their career might be in jeopardy it'll cost the FAA at minimum 8 figures to fire them if they have half competent legal representation. I hate to say it that way but that is the reality of the world we live in.
Our friend at AUS isn't going anywhere. I'd love more than anything to be wrong about that.
Our friend at AUS isn't going anywhere. I'd love more than anything to be wrong about that.
Phillytroll69
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Once again all it takes is one off joke or something and that's the ammo for review boards. But this is negligence. Can't wait to hear what tucker Carlson has to say
inthemoney
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I work at a lower level facility that is 24 hours where everyone has to be a trainer and a CIC. One of the perks is working without supervision from management. Which has definite pros and cons. I've noticed in the past 5 years the amount of electronic distractions is the direct workplace is rampant. Accountability is rare. Professionalism is lost. For these reasons I don't want to be a CIC yet this would severely handicap my peers.
I've made comments about paying attention yet it falls on dead ears. And I'm not snitching. Its a matter of time before a major incident happens.
I've made comments about paying attention yet it falls on dead ears. And I'm not snitching. Its a matter of time before a major incident happens.
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- ZSU San Juan CERAP
The way SET was explained to us was that SDT was used when there was a known deficiency. What you’re talking about sounds like SIT (the other half of SET)
Sims can be great for specific tasks. Unfortunately a lot of places dont take advantage of the simulator. I believe for new radar controllers you could have sims that just target a specific thing you're going to encounter and just repeat it 20x in a single sim. There were a few things that seemed to give every trainee the "deer in the headlights" look every time it happened the first time, like IFR pop ups. It's easy to talk about it and what you should do but actually doing it is a different story.
But instead every facility has a sim or access to a sim and barely uses it. The sims they do have are probably unrealistic. I'm sure that high level facilities are an exception (hopefully).
Mr.Tickles
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If you’re unwilling to report an unsafe working environment youre part of the problem.
Things aren’t going to get better unless we hold our own accountable and take actions necessary to fix an unsafe work environment.
Laziness, being late, etc can be blown off and not reported. Controllers being consistently unsafe even after being called out. Fuck em. Report it through every avenue available.
