Holding Controllers Accountable
- Thread starter PointSixty5stalker
- Start date
I agree with the most recent lengthy posts. however, it’s still amazing to me that managers and controllers are still unwilling to be an open book during participation of investigations to find out what went wrong. people are so scared simply admitting, yeah I just missed that or I made a wrong decision as if they are going to get punished.
Has anyone ever heard of someone actually getting punished within the last 5-10 years for a close no? Why does this fear to participate still exist?
Who couldn’t use some sort of a refresher from time to time.
Has anyone ever heard of someone actually getting punished within the last 5-10 years for a close no? Why does this fear to participate still exist?
Who couldn’t use some sort of a refresher from time to time.
I’m sure it’s genius
doodii
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Because he is copying and pasting from a written document. Smitty is the ultimate .65 troll and I love it.
My buddy who’s an instructor pilot where I’m at asked about it and the punishment. I laughed and asked “punishment? This is a routine slap on the wrist.” Dude couldn’t believe me.
acutetriangles
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I don’t know
Why are you calling him that?
You really don’t know?
Being on your phone shouldn’t be 30 days, it should be immediate removal not just for this event, all the time. Sorry not sorry.
RomeoTangoRT
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Level 4, 5, 6 tower only controllers punching air rn
Yeah, I don’t know. Please explain.
That's the leading theory that I believe in rn.
Just an observation of mine, but when hearing the audio, I noticed that he sounded like he could barely finish his sentences. Almost like he was sleep deprived or maybe on something. Also, there seemed to be no realization that he almost killed 150 people. No change in his voice or anything, which is why I thought it could've been sleep or on something. But that's just what I noticed, it could be the way he always sounds.
Why not explain instead of clicking the "confused" button? What is so confusing.
acutetriangles
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I don’t think they want to say it out loud.
RomeoTangoRT
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To be fair, I’ve worked with controllers who become explosive at the slightest increase in traffic or wrongdoing and frankly they’re difficult to work with. Having to un-key clearances or mid transmission because they un-key and let off outbursts “fuck this … what the hell are they thinking …” and my personal favorite “NO NO NO STFU and let me speak!!”
So… while you’d expect some increase in urgency in one’s voice on frequency in a situation like that, I’d much rather control alongside someone who was able to remain calm cool and collected in a moment of adversity. Not necessarily saying that was the case here but just an observation from experience.
I’ve also worked and witnessed many incidents: whether that be crashes, loss of life scenarios, incursions, etc, where I or the controller handling the situation remained perfectly calm/monotone in the aftermath. So tone on freq shouldn’t immediately be a red flag.
*devil’s advocate*
In those situations, was the controller directly responsible for the incident in the first place? Seeing an incident happen, and being the one who's responsible for it, would evoke two very different reactions and feelings from me. But I see what you mean, it makes sense.
What do you think about his voice seeming to trail off at the end of his sentences?
Google, it’ll be obvious quick
I am aware what/who/the Dave Chappelle joke of "Juicy Smollett", what I don't understand is how that has anything to do with the controller in question. Want to explain?
RomeoTangoRT
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I’m going to be honest… it doesn’t seem or sound like the controller had any clue whatsoever what was happening. The only urgency it sounded like he had was asking if SW was on the roll. The silence was more deafening than any urgency provided by the controller. I have opposing mindsets here; First is you never want another pilot to control the situation for you (referencing FedEx telling SW to abort) and second is I’ve had scenarios where (pilot error) an aircraft gets into a situation where I don’t feel comfortable offering any control instructions and would rather the situation play out how it’s going to. Sort of stuck between a rock and a hard place and I’ll highlight the situation I was in where that’s the path I took.
I had a 737 inside of 3 miles landing 21. Second aircraft was an experimental in the right downwind for 21 landing 17. Non-intersecting runways but intersection arrival paths. Issued traffic for the experimental (traffic ahead and to your right b737 three mile final for 21). Roger we have traffic in sight. Roger pass behind the 737, caution wake turbulence cleared to land runway 17. “Pass behind the 737 cleared to land 17.”
The experimental turns in front of the 737 and lands 17. I didn’t offer any instruction because:
1. Turn left immediately - could potentially turn nose to nose with the 737.
2. Turn right immediately - suddenly they’re nut to butt with the 737 and gonna get run over.
3. Climb immediately? - 737 responds to tcas and climbs on a go around into my climbing experimental.
There wasn’t a control instruction I could have offered that would have helped and unfortunately you kinda have to just let it ride out. The pilot got a nice phone number to call and got a report filed. Now, the correct thing in the AUS incident would have been to never clear SW. But you could have defused the situation by aborting SW and instructing FedEx to go around. I don’t think there’s a right order to do that. Tell SW to abort and FedEx lands into them. Tell FedEx to go around and SW is already past their abort speed and climbs. The only solution imo was to not clear SW. Everything else got scary. SW said negative to the turn the controller issued so your hands are kinda tied. I think the inaction by the controller was simply not knowing how to remedy the situation. Or potentially realizing it was too late to remedy it and it had to play out how it did. Watch the radar display to see how close they got because no way you can see it out the window with less than 1/2 mile vis. Also… no “without delay” or “immediate[ly]” only “traffic three mile final.” But the tone of the controller tells me they didn’t realize how* close it was.
