"Internal Union Business"

Replies were all moved to one thread as for consolidation, I don’t move replies, please feel free to ask MJ.

Sorry for triple posting, forgot to put this in the last one. I have nothing bad to say about you brother, every interaction I've had with you has been quality.
 
Sorry for triple posting, forgot to put this in the last one. I have nothing bad to say about you brother, every interaction I've had with you has been quality.

Likewise man, I’m more than happy to have any discussion with you even over the phone, you’ve got the number.
 
"Not that it this in any way germaine but I think an interesting dynamic took place that every single one of you has skipped over in your rush to make “your point”

Since 2010 Paul Rinaldi and Trish Gilbert have sought the advice and counsel of their predecessors. Steve Bell, Ray Spickler, Barry Krasner, Mike McNally, Randy Schmitz, John Carr, Ruth Marlin and Pat Forrey. They have convened us at convention, during round table discussions, and yes, during private, sometimes heated debate concerning the future of our union. They listen, take notes, participate, and cell phones and laptops are not welcome. We get together because we love this union, and we love the membership. Do we always agree? No. Are we always given an unfiltered forum in which to address the elected leadership of the organization? YES.

Did Paul and Trish have to do this? NO. Did anyone before them think it was important enough to do? NO. Are we the only people they counseled with, including the NEB which has so overwhelmingly supported them? NO.

When ballots are counted the membership will have spoken, and in true NATCA form we will congeal like Jello behind the leadership and the vast resources they have available to help them guide our ship through rocky seas.

Please try to remember that personal attacks say more about the aggressor than the victim. Pointing out what someone else does wrong in no way helps me decide what you will do right. Negative campaigning works with negative people...which most controllers aren’t. Please one voter and you’ve got one vote; piss off one voter and you’ve poisoned a whole facility.

Have a vision. Have a plan for implementing it. Have actions you will take with our national office. Have actions you will take on Capitol Hill. Plan who you will do your media training with. Plan who you will do your mock testimony with. Plan a strategy that will bring the union to the vision you have spent the last three months articulating to them.....you HAVE spent the last three months articulating you’re vision, haven’t you?

Finally, you ain’t God. As G.W.Bush told Bill Clinton as they headed for Clinton’s inauguration,” Now you get to see just exactly how little power you have.” Build relationships within NATCA and with industry, the AFL-CIO, the construction trades, AFA, ALPA and too many to mention. Know what you’re going to say before you sit down.

And don’t fuck up. 15,000 families are counting on you to get it right EVERY SINGLE TIME." - John Carr

I have mad respect for John Carr, but a couple of things. This election is no different than any other election. You just see it more because of social media. His election with Pat was ugly at times, lots of personal attacks in all directions, the real only social media at that time was the NATCA BBS.
As far as the candidates having a plan, both Candidates have websites laying out ideas, plans, etc.. to insinuate that anyone running for national office hasn’t planned or articulated any plan, is ridiculous. It’s a matter of the members finding the plan that appeals to them.
 
Give me some examples please. Pretty sure I haven't done that.

Your posts are either cut and paste of someone calling Zilonis a liar, or complaining that this website is propaganda. Perhaps denigrate is incorrect in this context. Disparage is a more accurate term.
 
Just out of curiosity, where's the line for personal insults, maturity, respect etc? Cause I just double checked my post history and I would like someone to do the same and tell me if they agree that the only thing I come here to do is denigrate the character of Bryan Zilonis.

You weren't insulted, personally or otherwise; you were invited to go elsewhere if you didn't like the content of the website. Nothing in my post was immature and if you felt disrespected, that's 100 percent on you.
 
Your posts are either cut and paste of someone calling Zilonis a liar, or complaining that this website is propaganda. Perhaps denigrate is incorrect in this context. Disparage is a more accurate term.

If you mean that's the only reason I come to the website, that's just straight up wrong. If you mean this thread then I hope you can understand I'm literally just posting the main responses to the comment chain that this post is about. If you just want this website to be an echo chamber, then just say so.

Although I'm pretty sure fighting that mindset is a huge part of the Zilonis campaign.

You weren't insulted, personally or otherwise; you were invited to go elsewhere if you didn't like the content of the website. Nothing in my post was immature and if you felt disrespected, that's 100 percent on you.

lol.

"Far as I can tell, the only thing you come here to do is denigrate the character of Bryan Zilonis."

I've never done that. If posting the responses are denigrating, or disparaging, (or literally any adjective you want to change it to) the character of Zilonis, then wouldn't you be able to say the same of the original posts but in regards to Rinaldi? No matter how you feel about the candidate, if posting one side is fair game then the other is too.

"Which is pretty rich considering the candidate that you’re supporting."

100% mature and not insulting at all. Taking that as anything less than adding value to the conversation is obviously due to my poor reading comprehension.
 
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If you mean that's the only reason I come to the website, that's just straight up wrong. If you mean this thread then I hope you can understand I'm literally just posting the main responses to the comment chain that this post is about. If you just want this website to be an echo chamber, then just say so.

Although I'm pretty sure fighting that mindset is a huge part of the Zilonis campaign.

It is hard to argue against emails/recordings/and testimony that are produced. I honestly fail to see how this is propaganda and must resort to my comment that if 10 people in a room are looking at the problem the same way, someone is either not thinking or looking, and perhaps a carefully cultivated culture of fear/intimidation has taken hold.


These are established facts about Rinaldi, using his own words brother, to insult and belittle NATCA members. You are, as you know, welcome to post anything you wish about any of the candidates, but the emails/recordings/ and testimony as a matter of record are hard to defend the behaviour exhibited.

I also, given the facts and encouraging you to do your own research (as I have spent countless hours and days) researching the Privatisation train. Of course I could go into endless detail, but please research it. If you read the same things I have read, I cannot accept the narrative that is provided to me by Paul or Trish. When someone says "Trust me, we know what is best for you," history has shown that it is a very short road indeed to wanting to portray or control a narrative that you expect people to adopt without question or concern.

I would then ask you have we become Rome, driven by nothing other than the certainty that Caesar can do no wrong?



 
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It is hard to argue against emails/recordings/and testimony that are produced. I honestly fail to see how this is propaganda and must resort to my comment that if 10 people in a room are looking at the problem the same way, someone is either not thinking or looking, and perhaps a carefully cultivated culture of fear/intimidation has taken hold.


These are established facts about Rinaldi, using his own words brother, to insult and belittle NATCA members. You are, as you know, welcome to post anything you wish about any of the candidates, but the emails/recordings/ and testimony as a matter of record are hard to defend the behaviour exhibited.

I also, given the facts and encouraging you to do your own research (as I have spent countless hours and days) researching the Privatisation train. Of course I could go into endless detail, but please research it. If you read the same things I have read, I cannot accept the narrative that is provided to me by Paul or Trish. When someone says "Trust me, we know what is best for you," history has shown that it is a very short road indeed to wanting to portray or control a narrative that you expect people to adopt without question or concern.


I know you aren't going to like this answer much so I apologize, but I don't really want to engage this or argue anything as I think you and I are so far apart that there's not a lot to be gained. To be honest, I try and avoid all of these threads and only popped in initially to post some of the opposing comments so people can get to read stuff from both sides. That being said, I never said propaganda. I said there's a bias, and I stand by that. Like everything political, both sides have some merits as well as downfalls. People need to have information from both sides to make an informed decision.

Unfortunately, nothing draws me in and gets me spicy like people making unfounded claims about my intentions and/or integrity. I have several good friends in the Union that support Zilonis, and we have no animosity towards one another. I know that is not the case every where, but I am not every person. It's really disheartening to see the people on both sides of this generalizing everyone.
 
I know you aren't going to like this answer much so I apologize, but I don't really want to engage this or argue anything as I think you and I are so far apart that there's not a lot to be gained. To be honest, I try and avoid all of these threads and only popped in initially to post some of the opposing comments so people can get to read stuff from both sides. That being said, I never said propaganda. I said there's a bias, and I stand by that. Like everything political, both sides have some merits as well as downfalls. People need to have information from both sides to make an informed decision.

Unfortunately, nothing draws me in and gets me spicy like people making unfounded claims about my intentions and/or integrity. I have several good friends in the Union that support Zilonis, and we have no animosity towards one another. I know that is not the case every where, but I am not every person. It's really disheartening to see the people on both sides of this generalizing everyone.

Brother we are far apart and that is okay. Bias perhaps is a better word to describe it. I have made so many phone calls this season I could post a screen shot of my minutes spent and it would blow some minds. That said, I have nor bear any ill will towards you or any animosity and I look forward to working together with you one day on improving our Union from our different perspectives. Cheers Brother!
 
Brother we are far apart and that is okay. Bias perhaps is a better word to describe it. I have made so many phone calls this season I could post a screen shot of my minutes spent and it would blow some minds. That said, I have nor bear any ill will towards you or any animosity and I look forward to working together with you one day on improving our Union from our different perspectives. Cheers Brother!


Well said GC. We can initiate the biggest changes when not all parties agree on something since at that point, everyone has something different to add to the issue. If you support Bryan, vote for Bryan. If you support Paul, vote for Paul. At the end of the day, we must respect the decision of the membership and support our leaders, whomever they may be. We need to come together as a union and remember why we pay dues in the first place.
 
If you mean that's the only reason I come to the website, that's just straight up wrong. If you mean this thread then I hope you can understand I'm literally just posting the main responses to the comment chain that this post is about. If you just want this website to be an echo chamber, then just say so.

Although I'm pretty sure fighting that mindset is a huge part of the Zilonis campaign.



lol.

"Far as I can tell, the only thing you come here to do is denigrate the character of Bryan Zilonis."

I've never done that. If posting the responses are denigrating, or disparaging, (or literally any adjective you want to change it to) the character of Zilonis, then wouldn't you be able to say the same of the original posts but in regards to Rinaldi? No matter how you feel about the candidate, if posting one side is fair game then the other is too.

"Which is pretty rich considering the candidate that you’re supporting."

100% mature and not insulting at all. Taking that as anything less than adding value to the conversation is obviously due to my poor reading comprehension.

I won't speak to anyone's reading comprehension (as much nuance can be lost on a message board) and rather than debate my level of maturity, I will just wish you a good night.
 
While I have no issue with Bryan bringing up issues he thinks is important, releasing private emails including the NEB list serv is dirty pool. Imagine if you were emailing or talking to a FACREP and then come to find out that FACREP is using that email or conversation to further themselves for an election.

I am all about honest and even heated discourse but what precedent are we setting by releasing some of these materials. I just hope the fractures will be fixed after this election.
 
In the same vein though, sending a message via the NEB list serv that serves no other purpose than to slander someone and call them names without addressing a single issue they disagree with you on is despicable. It serves no other purpose than to disseminate who's on the NATCA shitlist according to paul to the NEB.
 
In the same vein though, sending a message via the NEB list serv that serves no other purpose than to slander someone and call them names without addressing a single issue they disagree with you on is despicable. It serves no other purpose than to disseminate who's on the NATCA shitlist according to paul to the NEB.

Not sure how you can surmise that without seeing the whole email chain for context. You are only seeing a snippet of what I am guessing was a very long and heated debate. Again I go back to how would you feel if your confidential email was released for political gain?
 
Keep in mind, the only reason that email was released was because Bryan was called a liar and that what had happened to Randy never happened. It wasn’t for political gain, but to show he was telling the truth.
 
Sealed, private, privileged, or not. I don't want my representative talking about me or any other NATCA MEMBER in this way. You should never call a member a pussy, stupid, motherfucker, or scumbag. all not appropriate for some one who is representing me. End of the day way out of line in any level of discussion.
 
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