Is it worth it?

[GulfCharlie]

Degree Completion Program

Here is my post from last year... was around this time of year that they were accepting applications. Perhaps keep checking the FAA website to see if they're doing it again this year.

Solid find. MJ would not be a bad idea to stick this in its own informational thread.

I honestly lost any love I had for the job a long time ago, and coming back off the covid schedule sealed the deal for me (not that i expected or wanted it to go on forever, just the return to shift work and "business as usual" type stuff we all get used to doing the job not being there by and large during covid).

I've watched my peers in other career fields pass me by in pay, benefits and work life balance without any of the associated shift work bullshit And half the office politics drama, though that's more a facility thing than a job factor for everyone, the egos, rumor mill, cliques and drama seem to be everywhere to some extent. Any opportunity for movement or advancement ranges from awful to nonexistent, and no one in a position to fix these issues seems keen on doing so. There's just so many issues with culture and work conditions in atc that aren't worth it.

Add to this as I've gotten older, and my life outside of work has changed I rely less on work for fulfillment (and how much that type of work as an excuse for a personality person annoys the fuck outta me, and ATC is absolutely filthy with it) and realized how much this job is taking away from all the other things that make life good outside of being a worker drone.

I used to really enjoy the job enough to counterbalance the negatives, but now not so much. I definitely wouldn't recommend it to anyone with other options or prospects.

Did they ever get you certified on radar or they still dragging their feet?

 

[Peter Gibbons]

Did they ever get you certified on radar or they still dragging their feet?

Pm'd

 

[AB19]

Idk where all of the people making more than the average controller is. The average household income is still around level 4 cpc pay. We also aren’t paid what we provide like in other jobs, but when your union can’t use its most effective tool to negotiate for better pay what are you going to do

 

[ZO]

We also aren’t paid what we provide like in other jobs, but when your union can’t use its most effective tool to negotiate for better pay what are you going to do

Rare to see other jobs where ~50% of your shift is spent in the breakroom. People tend to get real quiet when that gets brought up.

 

[Ad1234]

I agree much of the job is broken and makes for a difficult career, but if many of the people we work with could find the same pay and benefits anywhere else with how little requirements there are to enter this job I’d be shocked. For people to say we don’t get paid what the private sector gets paid is foolish. Any job where you can possibly make 200k+ requires some degree and many many years experience.


So for those blockheads, the job is worth it because they won’t find better or comparable.

 

[TangoFox]

I definitely wouldn't recommend it to anyone with other options or prospects.

I think this is the major point to consider.

Random high schooler wondering if he should join the tech bandwagon or ATC? Don't go for ATC. Someone in their mid-20's making less than $50k for the past 2 years with no concrete plan to make six figures? I'd recommend at least applying. And I feel that's going to be the demographic moving forward: people with dead-end jobs looking to turn their life around. I mean cause all the aviation nerds are now opting to become pilots since that's objectively the better route, right?

I know for a fact I'd be in the same situation (office work) probably clearing less than D1 pay if I never applied years ago. I've never been disciplined enough to pick up coding and certainly didn't have the guts/money to go back to school for a masters. Owning a home won't mean inheriting it from my parents. Eating out isn't a decision that has to be thought about. Retirement will now mean taking in 100k+/year (pension + maxing out retirement accounts every year) and be done at 50 instead of 40k/year (if that) and be done at 62 (and needing health insurance).

I think ATC is one of the best "reset" buttons that's available to anyone under the age of 30.

 

[Peter Gibbons]

I think this is the major point to consider.

Random high schooler wondering if he should join the tech bandwagon or ATC? Don't go for ATC. Someone in their mid-20's making less than $50k for the past 2 years with no concrete plan to make six figures? I'd recommend at least applying. And I feel that's going to be the demographic moving forward: people with dead-end jobs looking to turn their life around. I mean cause all the aviation nerds are now opting to become pilots since that's objectively the better route, right?

I know for a fact I'd be in the same situation (office work) probably clearing less than D1 pay if I never applied years ago. I've never been disciplined enough to pick up coding and certainly didn't have the guts/money to go back to school for a masters. Owning a home won't mean inheriting it from my parents. Eating out isn't a decision that has to be thought about. Retirement will now mean taking in 100k+/year (pension + maxing out retirement accounts every year) and be done at 50 instead of 40k/year (if that) and be done at 62 (and needing health insurance).

I think ATC is one of the best "reset" buttons that's available to anyone under the age of 30.

All true, agree, and isnt too dissimilar a story to mine, but now you have a few years of fed experience in a well regarded job that gives you a good background for a ton of other stuff in aviation or safety....

Is it worth it to stay if you can keep your pay and parlay that experience into doing something else without the pitfalls? If you love the job fine, that's great. But because you got an opportunity at a hard reset in your 20s shouldn't mean it's a limiting factor on how you live your life if in your 30s or 40s it's not worth it anymore.

Idk where all of the people making more than the average controller is. The average household income is still around level 4 cpc pay. We also aren’t paid what we provide like in other jobs, but when your union can’t use its most effective tool to negotiate for better pay what are you going to do

This may have been true at the entry level, for sure. I started off making a lot more than a lot of my peers 100 percent true. They've all more or less caught up to me at this point advancing in thier given fields and my friends aren't exactly a bunch of norcal tech geniuses or wall street guys. And I have the worst schedule of them all. Yes my retirement Benny's are better, but that's really it.

Rare to see other jobs where ~50% of your shift is spent in the breakroom. People tend to get real quiet when that gets brought up.

True, but you are still at work. I'd rather be chilling on the couch at home with a frosty barley soda and not having my binge watching or sports viewing interrupted by an intercom call.

 

[Sky456]

2nd year first officers are making more than the average ATC now a days!

As for someone who is a couple hundred hours away from qualifying for airline hiring mins and in my mid 20s, I took this job to see what it was like on the other side. I passed the academy and am now at a center less than 5hrs from where I call home (lucky, I know).

I keep seeing friends who are airline pilots post pictures and we often talk about the airline life/schedule and I compare it to ATC and sometimes think is ATC worth it? I'm away from where I call home with probably no way to transfer anytime soon. I miss flying insanely much, and there is the what if factor of what I'm missing in my passion for flying.

Would you rather stick it out in ATC, or continue the path to the airlines? I tend to ask myself everyday and have mixed feelings.

 

[TangoFox]

I miss flying insanely much

Don't think there's anything more to be said. Passion > money assuming your basic needs are covered, which they will be. If you were more 50/50 about it, which you don't seem to be, I'd recommend at least waiting until you actually experience the job (R-side) before making a decision.

 

[GulfCharlie]

Look at other professions. What correlation is there with shortage of professionals? Increased pay. How do you think some type rated pilots can pull north of half a mil while also essentially making their schedule?

Is it true certain type rated captains are being offered in excess of 500k with essentially “pick your route and schedule” capabilities? Overheard a couple older jockeys discussing it at a physical a couple years back in the Miami area. Don’t shoot me if this is far from true, just what I overheard and it’s stuck with me ever since.

Listen, nose to scope, NATOPS will be here in April and CHIEF-Select needs the trash taken out. Legit though I’m curious as well, I’ve heard the same.

 

[RomeoTangoRT]

I botched that message because I had it typed out for a previous response but interest remains ?

 

[AnyTrafficPleaseAdvise]

As for someone who is a couple hundred hours away from qualifying for airline hiring mins and in my mid 20s, I took this job to see what it was like on the other side. I passed the academy and am now at a center less than 5hrs from where I call home (lucky, I know).

I keep seeing friends who are airline pilots post pictures and we often talk about the airline life/schedule and I compare it to ATC and sometimes think is ATC worth it? I'm away from where I call home with probably no way to transfer anytime soon. I miss flying insanely much, and there is the what if factor of what I'm missing in my passion for flying.

Would you rather stick it out in ATC, or continue the path to the airlines? I tend to ask myself everyday and have mixed feelings.

This is a question I’ve been pondering almost daily recently. When first year regional first officers are making $90+/ hour it really makes you wonder

 

[32andBelow]

This is a question I’ve been pondering almost daily recently. When first year regional first officers are making $90+/ hour it really makes you wonder

You have to compare total compensation. Pilots can only fly 1000 hours a year

 

[AnyTrafficPleaseAdvise]

You have to compare total compensation. Pilots can only fly 1000 hours a year

Again, That’s for a first year first officer at a Regional. Captains at majors are making a few hundred an hour with a 75hours/month minimum. That doesn’t include per diem, international pay, irrops, etc. They have a better quality of life, get flight benefits, make more money per hour, and get to look out a window (I work in a center). Where do I sign up?

 

[32andBelow]

Again, That’s for a first year first officer at a Regional. Captains at majors are making a few hundred an hour with a 75hours/month minimum. That doesn’t include per diem, international pay, irrops, etc. They have a better quality of life, get flight benefits, make more money per hour, and get to look out a window (I work in a center). Where do I sign up?

Yah for sure. Just saying comparing the hourly rates doesn’t make much sense.

 

[Sky456]

Don't think there's anything more to be said. Passion > money assuming your basic needs are covered, which they will be. If you were more 50/50 about it, which you don't seem to be, I'd recommend at least waiting until you actually experience the job (R-side) before making a decision.

Again, That’s for a first year first officer at a Regional. Captains at majors are making a few hundred an hour with a 75hours/month minimum. That doesn’t include per diem, international pay, irrops, etc. They have a better quality of life, get flight benefits, make more money per hour, and get to look out a window (I work in a center). Where do I sign up?

I definitely have a passion for flying and was never set on switching to controlling, but getting the FOL and academy dates while I was flying survey, it was almost like I needed a change because I was never home as a survey pilot, but I think that would change in airlines being able to come home.

I know waiting till R-side to actually get a feel for the job could be worth it, but seeing the work schedule/home life balance of side of things as a controller, I still ask is it worth it? I'm just not sure how much of my time is worth waiting in the training department waiting for D-School let alone R-School.

It was the what if factor of what the life of a controller was like, and as I've talked to other controller friends that work at a local tower, I had a pretty good idea what I was getting into but still wanted to try it. But now the what if factor driving me insane about the airlines haha.

It's also hard on AG pay to be able to afford living and to continue flying even just for fun

 

[N737ER]

Again, That’s for a first year first officer at a Regional. Captains at majors are making a few hundred an hour with a 75hours/month minimum. That doesn’t include per diem, international pay, irrops, etc. They have a better quality of life, get flight benefits, make more money per hour, and get to look out a window (I work in a center). Where do I sign up?

For those who may be interested in pilot pay numbers/details this may be worth a browse:

End of 2022 Salary Survey - Airline Pilot Central Forums

Major - End of 2022 Salary Survey - Discuss amongst yourselves.

www.airlinepilotforums.com

There is so much more to what they make than just a straight salary or hourly rate. Some posts are more detailed than others. Commuiting, days away from home, total time flown, and the commensurate salary are all on a case-by-case basis. No two pilots at the same airline are the same. Maybe we'd want to compare to their monthly guarantee?

As for myself, it's something I've personally pondered ever since shortly after I certified at my second facility (pre-covid). Some days it's not, some days it is, some days I feel stuck and want more than what I get out of this job.

 

[AZNLUVR69]

For those who may be interested in pilot pay numbers/details this may be worth a browse:

End of 2022 Salary Survey - Airline Pilot Central Forums

Major - End of 2022 Salary Survey - Discuss amongst yourselves.

www.airlinepilotforums.com

There is so much more to what they make than just a straight salary or hourly rate. Some posts are more detailed than others. Commuiting, days away from home, total time flown, and the commensurate salary are all on a case-by-case basis. No two pilots at the same airline are the same. Maybe we'd want to compare to their monthly guarantee?

As for myself, it's something I've personally pondered ever since shortly after I certified at my second facility (pre-covid). Some days it's not, some days it is, some days I feel stuck and want more than what I get out of this job.

Wow, reading that thread just made me even more depressed about not sticking with flying.

I was fortunate and got my PPL when I was 17, if I had just stuck with it I’d be making $300,000+ right now instead of $85k while still in my 20’s. What a ? I am.

Looks like it’s time to get back flying again!

 

[TimShady]

Another thing to consider is job security. Airlines are feast or famine. Right now it looks like becoming a pilot is a no-brainer but when the next recession hits you might find yourself in the unemployment line.

Once you CPC in the FAA it’s almost impossible for you to lose your job, like it’s a nonissue. Not many jobs are like that. I used to worry about what if I lost my medical, but now I realize they just give you a desk job with comparable pay or you get to retire!

That, plus the good pay if you’re at a higher level, plus early retirement is a pretty sweet gig. It’s really just a matter of whether or not you can stand the schedule. I don’t think it’s the worst thing in the world, but if you do, this job probably isn’t for you.

 

[Papacharlie327]

No, I would never tell my kids to do this job.
Cons:
1. The schedule sucks. No weekends or holidays until halfway through your career in the best cases.
2. The medical clearance could ruin you if you have something slightly wrong with you and you go down, you could lose your job and everything you worked for.
3. Training, you might get fired.
4. Career advancement might not ever happen for some controllers.
5. Pay has not kept up with inflation for the majority of controllers. This job use to be very well compensated but every decent paying job has caught up.

This list is not all conclusive but just off the top of my head.

Pros:
1. The breaks are nice.
2. Being able to retire early is nice if you don't die soon after retirement which might have to do with horrible schedule.
3. Talking to planes is cool.

I agree with this completely. The union should be ashamed that career progression doesn’t include controllers moving up as controllers.