Mick Devine - Let's Compare Pay for an ATC-6 vs. GS-12...

[penaltyvectors]

This part’s blatantly untrue. The amount of people that scam training schedules and trainee leave availability, because they began training at full salary, is way higher than devs. Some people still do it even though they’re still in the training bands.

What about the cases where trainees are desperate to train but aren't allowed to due to a training backlog? I'm specifically referring to ZNY where even the most dedicated, talented trainee takes 5+ years before being allowed to talk to a plane. Or the D2 at an up/down that just checked out in the tower but the ATM won't send them to RTF for 6+ months because it's almost the busy season.

Trainee raises need to be tied to time in facility OR checkout success, whichever comes first. Maybe 6 months max in each D grade is a good start. And if they do spend 3 years at your facility before washing out, they're still considered an AG on paper, just like what happens if a prior experience AG washes out. If you've been at your facility over a year and are still at AG pay, other than cases where you lost your medical, I'd argue that in most cases the facility is to blame. Either you waited a long time to class up, or they have too many trainees to give you adequate time, or you suck and they haven't followed the process correctly to get rid of you.

 

[ATC Zero]

What about the cases where trainees are desperate to train but aren't allowed to due to a training backlog? I'm specifically referring to ZNY where even the most dedicated, talented trainee takes 5+ years before being allowed to talk to a plane. Or the D2 at an up/down that just checked out in the tower but the ATM won't send them to RTF for 6+ months because it's almost the busy season.

Trainee raises need to be tied to time in facility OR checkout success, whichever comes first. Maybe 6 months max in each D grade is a good start. And if they do spend 3 years at your facility before washing out, they're still considered an AG on paper, just like what happens if a prior experience AG washes out. If you've been at your facility over a year and are still at AG pay, other than cases where you lost your medical, I'd argue that in most cases the facility is to blame. Either you waited a long time to class up, or they have too many trainees to give you adequate time, or you suck and they haven't followed the process correctly to get rid of you.

Agree a faster way to the bottom of CPC band, whatever to get there faster fine.
But yes the trainees would work their way up from AG and the process for trainee to CPC remain the same.

 

[32andBelow]

This part’s blatantly untrue. The amount of people that scam training schedules and trainee leave availability, because they began training at full salary, is way higher than devs. Some people still do it even though they’re still in the training bands.

You still have to train in other jobs. They dont have to allow trainees to take unlimited leave and do whatever they want like they currently have been

 

[ATC Zero]

You still have to train in other jobs. They dont have to allow trainees to take unlimited leave and do whatever they want like they currently have been

Like I said facility problem. What are new trainees even earning for leave 13 AL 13 SL…so they can be gone 5 weeks total of 52 if they want to burn it all up.

 

[Move78]

You still have to train in other jobs. They dont have to allow trainees to take unlimited leave and do whatever they want like they currently have been

So you don’t want your union advocating for a leave request for someone that doesn’t count for staffing? You sound like a sup

What about the cases where trainees are desperate to train but aren't allowed to due to a training backlog? I'm specifically referring to ZNY where even the most dedicated, talented trainee takes 5+ years before being allowed to talk to a plane. Or the D2 at an up/down that just checked out in the tower but the ATM won't send them to RTF for 6+ months because it's almost the busy season.

Trainee raises need to be tied to time in facility OR checkout success, whichever comes first. Maybe 6 months max in each D grade is a good start. And if they do spend 3 years at your facility before washing out, they're still considered an AG on paper, just like what happens if a prior experience AG washes out. If you've been at your facility over a year and are still at AG pay, other than cases where you lost your medical, I'd argue that in most cases the facility is to blame. Either you waited a long time to class up, or they have too many trainees to give you adequate time, or you suck and they haven't followed the process correctly to get rid of you.

Yeah it’s all fucked. And has nothing to do with my post whatsoever.

 

[Redacted]

So you don’t want your union advocating for a leave request for someone that doesn’t count for staffing? You sound like a sup

I actually want my sup getting someone who doesn’t count for staffing to count for staffing as soon as humanly possible.

 

[Move78]

So you’re talking CPC-IT? They aren’t quite at full salary either 50% on the go…
There’s the NTI if people fucking around, take it to the TRB. That’s in house training issues at that point.

See this just another example of the keyboard Karen’s posting only from their 1 perspective that’s not scalable. If you worked at a facility that received lateral/downgrade/rentrant transfers you’d understand how retarded training would get if the only thing certifying meant was you can’t get leave anymore. There’s a million ways to scam out a training timeline.
I’m not even arguing against the original point of a wage increase. Just your naive addition about how it won’t create a downside.
You think the amount of “kids these days” is bad now? All the Olds gonna lose it when this wimpy GenZ gets full salary on day 1 and put their shitty work ethic on full pause.

 

[ATC Zero]

See this just another example of the keyboard Karen’s posting only from their 1 perspective that’s not scalable. If you worked at a facility that received lateral/downgrade transfers you’d understand how retarded training would get if the only thing certifying meant was you can’t get leave anymore. There’s a million ways to scam out a training timeline.
I’m not even arguing against the original point of a wage increase. Just your naive addition about how it won’t create a downside.
You think the amount of “kids these days” is bad now? All the Olds gonna lose it when this wimpy GenZ gets full salary on day 1 and put their shitty work ethic on full pause.

Wouldn’t lateral/downgrade have reduced hours? Talk to your rep about that. Maybe your facility needs a workgroup to address it.
If on day one, someone is at the bottom of the CPC good for them. I don’t have to listen about basic level struggles like how RENT is so expensive that at least one whole paycheck is going to that…or that they can only afford to put 5% in their TSP. And can concentrate on actually training them knowing damn well I’m still making quite a bit more money because my time in service has gotten me to that point.
I think we found Negative Nancy on here.

 

[Move78]

I actually want my sup getting someone who doesn’t count for staffing to count for staffing as soon as humanly possible.

No rep is ever going to advocate for a trainee’s leave denial for training. It’s staffing and workload per the CBA and it’s a listed impediment in the NTI.

Wouldn’t lateral/downgrade have reduced hours? Talk to your rep about that. Maybe your facility needs a workgroup to address it.
If on day one, someone is at the bottom of the CPC good for them. I don’t have to listen about basic level struggles like how RENT is so expensive that at least one whole paycheck is going to that…or that they can only afford to put 5% in their TSP. And can concentrate on actually training them knowing damn well I’m still making quite a bit more money because my time in service has gotten me to that point.
I think we found Negative Nancy on here.

That’s not true either, it’s based on prev experience not previous pay level. And you’re still not addressing the point. No one has said they shouldn’t get paid more. Or shouldn’t get full pay on day 1. Just that you’re clueless if you think there wouldn’t a wave of new issues with it. The NAS would be drowning in 5 year trainees.

 

[ATC Zero]

That’s not true either, it’s based on prev experience not previous pay level. And you’re still not addressing the point. No one has said they shouldn’t get paid more. Or shouldn’t get full pay on day 1. Just that you’re clueless if you think there wouldn’t a wave of new issues with it. The NAS would be drowning in 5 year trainees.

I’m thankful for the NTI that’s all I’m gonna say. We start Washing Um on ground if they seem fucked up. Do what you gotta do. Byyyye

 

[AB19]

Trainees already start at the bottom of CPC upon rehire into the agency, why should people transferring and not quitting be punished?

 

[Turnpike14]

Trainees already start at the bottom of CPC upon rehire into the agency, why should people transferring and not quitting be punished?

True. I was surprised I would be starting at CPC payband after re entering FAA

 

[CaptainObvious]

Trainees already start at the bottom of CPC upon rehire into the agency, why should people transferring and not quitting be punished?

Nobody is transferring

 

[FightingIrish2012]

I do think they will shut off all transfers soon. Maybe right after the election. It decreases CPC headcount by almost 1% so they will shut it off for “safety” and due to the recommendation on that report. “Collaboration” lol.

 

[GulfCharlie]

I do think they will shut off all transfers soon. Maybe right after the election. It decreases CPC headcount by almost 1% so they will shut it off for “safety” and due to the recommendation on that report. “Collaboration” lol.

I sense something similar as well. The numbers are dropping too rapidly.

 

[KiloZulu]

I sense something similar as well. The numbers are dropping too rapidly.

Just seems to me like they're going to get a corresponding rise in resignations then.

 

[32andBelow]

I do think they will shut off all transfers soon. Maybe right after the election. It decreases CPC headcount by almost 1% so they will shut it off for “safety” and due to the recommendation on that report. “Collaboration” lol.

They have already effectively been shut off for center controllers for years

 

[twn]

They have already effectively been shut off for center controllers for years

In solidarity ✊️