N90

Messages
12
Yeah. Going to be interesting. Curious how they execute this. Not a small project at all like tower consolidations
Pre-training started in January at OKC and RPOs from SAIC are learning the airspace and testing the sims. Its apparently turned into a shitshow from the sim side. Original timeline was January-July in OKC then start training in Philly ending in October. Most recent timeline I heard since the issue was OKC training until December then train in Philly for 6 months
 

julietoscar

Member
Messages
15
Pre-training started in January at OKC and RPOs from SAIC are learning the airspace and testing the sims. Its apparently turned into a shitshow from the sim side. Original timeline was January-July in OKC then start training in Philly ending in October. Most recent timeline I heard since the issue was OKC training until December then train in Philly for 6 months
Why is anyone going to OKC? I assumed they would have just brought people from PHL to N90 to learn the airspace
 

DankVectorz

Legendary Member
FAA
Messages
1,517
Facility
N90 New York Tracon
How many people are in the area? How many actually want to go?

29 in the area I believe (100% is like 57 or 63 something like that). We haven’t done any kind of real polling but from conversation I’d say about 50% either want to go or would rather go to PHL than train in a different area, 40% don’t want it to go, and 10% don’t care cause they’re retiring as soon as we go to BWS anyway.
 
Messages
53
29 in the area I believe (100% is like 57 or 63 something like that). We haven’t done any kind of real polling but from conversation I’d say about 50% either want to go or would rather go to PHL than train in a different area, 40% don’t want it to go, and 10% don’t care cause they’re retiring as soon as we go to BWS anyway.
Wow. A lot more than I thought. Wouldn’t they have to train a bit in PHL too? Probably just not as much. I take it a lot of people may retire all over the country once the reality of BWS hits. Everyone will truly realize how good alternate work schedules were once we’re off of it and if you’re near retirement, it’s almost a no brainer.
 

DankVectorz

Legendary Member
FAA
Messages
1,517
Facility
N90 New York Tracon
Wouldn’t they have to train a bit in PHL too?

Why would we have to train in PHL? The airspace isn’t changing, just where we’re working. They’ll be some new LOA’s and maybe SOP’s to learn but that’s it. It’s not like we’re going to be taking over any PHL airspace. Sure beats having to train in an entirely new area.
 

Termine

Trusted Contributor
Messages
381
Why would we have to train in PHL? The airspace isn’t changing, just where we’re working. They’ll be some new LOA’s and maybe SOP’s to learn but that’s it. It’s not like we’re going to be taking over any PHL airspace. Sure beats having to train in an entirely new area.
Obviously N90 is a special case, but in previous 804s what's happened is each group of controllers only worked their own airspace to start, but eventually people would cross-train. For example when K90 moved to A90 they started totally separate but now they have a north/south split where each group works BOS, but only "north" controllers work MHT and only "south" controllers work the Cape. Is there no chance of that happening, or you just haven't heard of it yet?
 

wand_waver

Member
Messages
89
Obviously N90 is a special case, but in previous 804s what's happened is each group of controllers only worked their own airspace to start, but eventually people would cross-train. For example when K90 moved to A90 they started totally separate but now they have a north/south split where each group works BOS, but only "north" controllers work MHT and only "south" controllers work the Cape. Is there no chance of that happening, or you just haven't heard of it yet?
I have no knowledge of the situation but these are 2 core 30 airports. I highly doubt they’d allow cross training. Even combining satellite airports between the two airspace would be too complex
 

DankVectorz

Legendary Member
FAA
Messages
1,517
Facility
N90 New York Tracon
Obviously N90 is a special case, but in previous 804s what's happened is each group of controllers only worked their own airspace to start, but eventually people would cross-train. For example when K90 moved to A90 they started totally separate but now they have a north/south split where each group works BOS, but only "north" controllers work MHT and only "south" controllers work the Cape. Is there no chance of that happening, or you just haven't heard of it yet?

currently PHL has Area A and Area B. EWR is to become Area C. It will be its own area inside PHL Tracon so there will be no cross training other than those current PHL controllers who volunteer to move to the EWR side.
 
Messages
53
currently PHL has Area A and Area B. EWR is to become Area C. It will be its own area inside PHL Tracon so there will be no cross training other than those current PHL controllers who volunteer to move to the EWR side.
See if this is the case then why is the FAA relocating the area in the first place? Wrong answers only please. Also, if an estimated 40% of the controllers would go down there, you’re going to run the same exact area/traffic with 60% less staffing? At least initially. Sounds very FAA.
 

DankVectorz

Legendary Member
FAA
Messages
1,517
Facility
N90 New York Tracon
See if this is the case then why is the FAA relocating the area in the first place? Wrong answers only please. Also, if an estimated 40% of the controllers would go down there, you’re going to run the same exact area/traffic with 60% less staffing? At least initially. Sounds very FAA.

because per FAA projections by end of 2022 we will have only 98 CPC’s in all of N90 out of 226 for 100%. They feel moving EWR to PHL would attract more qualified transfers and cut down on the number of withdrawals from training. When NCEPT dropped, 32 trainees withdrew from training rather then get stuck on LI.
 

Congressional

Member
Messages
8
See if this is the case then why is the FAA relocating the area in the first place? Wrong answers only please. Also, if an estimated 40% of the controllers would go down there, you’re going to run the same exact area/traffic with 60% less staffing? At least initially. Sounds very FAA.
Sometimes you have to make it worse initially for it to ever have a chance in hell of getting better.

It won’t ever get better on Long Island
 
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