SporadicVectors said:If the EWR area to PHL rumors I’m hearing about are true, you may end up behind some CPCs who stay at N90 and disburse among the other sectors too. Backlog there could surprisingly get worse if that happens.
I think that's well past being a rumor at this point. From what I've heard they're planning on finalizing it this September.
julietoscar said:I think that's well past being a rumor at this point. From what I've heard they're planning on finalizing it this September.
Yeah. Going to be interesting. Curious how they execute this. Not a small project at all like tower consolidations.
referral list issued today
ebk2992 said:referral list issued today
Saw this too. I'm guessing a few weeks at least before hearing anything more?
SporadicVectors said:Yeah. Going to be interesting. Curious how they execute this. Not a small project at all like tower consolidations
Pre-training started in January at OKC and RPOs from SAIC are learning the airspace and testing the sims. Its apparently turned into a shitshow from the sim side. Original timeline was January-July in OKC then start training in Philly ending in October. Most recent timeline I heard since the issue was OKC training until December then train in Philly for 6 months
TheHockeyGuyUND said:Pre-training started in January at OKC and RPOs from SAIC are learning the airspace and testing the sims. Its apparently turned into a shitshow from the sim side. Original timeline was January-July in OKC then start training in Philly ending in October. Most recent timeline I heard since the issue was OKC training until December then train in Philly for 6 months
Why is anyone going to OKC? I assumed they would have just brought people from PHL to N90 to learn the airspace
julietoscar said:Why is anyone going to OKC? I assumed they would have just brought people from PHL to N90 to learn the airspace
OKC (academy) was the only place that had the space and enough equipment to be able to train the RPOs plus with COVID they weren't going to send a bunch of people into the TRACON
TheHockeyGuyUND said:OKC (academy) was the only place that had the space and enough equipment to be able to train the RPOs plus with COVID they weren't going to send a bunch of people into the TRACON
I heard they want a list of volunteer CPCs who want to transfer to PHL with the new area by mid April
SporadicVectors said:I heard they want a list of volunteer CPCs who want to transfer to PHL with the new area by mid April
yeah they just sent out the solicitation for volunteers the other day and have to respond by April 17
DankVectorz said:yeah they just sent out the solicitation for volunteers the other day and have to respond by April 17
How many people are in the area? How many actually want to go?
SporadicVectors said:How many people are in the area? How many actually want to go?
29 in the area I believe (100% is like 57 or 63 something like that). We haven’t done any kind of real polling but from conversation I’d say about 50% either want to go or would rather go to PHL than train in a different area, 40% don’t want it to go, and 10% don’t care cause they’re retiring as soon as we go to BWS anyway.
DankVectorz said:29 in the area I believe (100% is like 57 or 63 something like that). We haven’t done any kind of real polling but from conversation I’d say about 50% either want to go or would rather go to PHL than train in a different area, 40% don’t want it to go, and 10% don’t care cause they’re retiring as soon as we go to BWS anyway.
Wow. A lot more than I thought. Wouldn’t they have to train a bit in PHL too? Probably just not as much. I take it a lot of people may retire all over the country once the reality of BWS hits. Everyone will truly realize how good alternate work schedules were once we’re off of it and if you’re near retirement, it’s almost a no brainer.
SporadicVectors said:Wouldn’t they have to train a bit in PHL too?
Why would we have to train in PHL? The airspace isn’t changing, just where we’re working. They’ll be some new LOA’s and maybe SOP’s to learn but that’s it. It’s not like we’re going to be taking over any PHL airspace. Sure beats having to train in an entirely new area.
DankVectorz said:Why would we have to train in PHL? The airspace isn’t changing, just where we’re working. They’ll be some new LOA’s and maybe SOP’s to learn but that’s it. It’s not like we’re going to be taking over any PHL airspace. Sure beats having to train in an entirely new area.
Obviously N90 is a special case, but in previous 804s what's happened is each group of controllers only worked their own airspace to start, but eventually people would cross-train. For example when K90 moved to A90 they started totally separate but now they have a north/south split where each group works BOS, but only "north" controllers work MHT and only "south" controllers work the Cape. Is there no chance of that happening, or you just haven't heard of it yet?
Termine said:Obviously N90 is a special case, but in previous 804s what's happened is each group of controllers only worked their own airspace to start, but eventually people would cross-train. For example when K90 moved to A90 they started totally separate but now they have a north/south split where each group works BOS, but only "north" controllers work MHT and only "south" controllers work the Cape. Is there no chance of that happening, or you just haven't heard of it yet?
I have no knowledge of the situation but these are 2 core 30 airports. I highly doubt they’d allow cross training. Even combining satellite airports between the two airspace would be too complex
Termine said:Obviously N90 is a special case, but in previous 804s what's happened is each group of controllers only worked their own airspace to start, but eventually people would cross-train. For example when K90 moved to A90 they started totally separate but now they have a north/south split where each group works BOS, but only "north" controllers work MHT and only "south" controllers work the Cape. Is there no chance of that happening, or you just haven't heard of it yet?
currently PHL has Area A and Area B. EWR is to become Area C. It will be its own area inside PHL Tracon so there will be no cross training other than those current PHL controllers who volunteer to move to the EWR side.
DankVectorz said:currently PHL has Area A and Area B. EWR is to become Area C. It will be its own area inside PHL Tracon so there will be no cross training other than those current PHL controllers who volunteer to move to the EWR side.
See if this is the case then why is the FAA relocating the area in the first place? Wrong answers only please. Also, if an estimated 40% of the controllers would go down there, you’re going to run the same exact area/traffic with 60% less staffing? At least initially. Sounds very FAA.
SporadicVectors said:See if this is the case then why is the FAA relocating the area in the first place? Wrong answers only please. Also, if an estimated 40% of the controllers would go down there, you’re going to run the same exact area/traffic with 60% less staffing? At least initially. Sounds very FAA.
because per FAA projections by end of 2022 we will have only 98 CPC’s in all of N90 out of 226 for 100%. They feel moving EWR to PHL would attract more qualified transfers and cut down on the number of withdrawals from training. When NCEPT dropped, 32 trainees withdrew from training rather then get stuck on LI.
SporadicVectors said:See if this is the case then why is the FAA relocating the area in the first place? Wrong answers only please. Also, if an estimated 40% of the controllers would go down there, you’re going to run the same exact area/traffic with 60% less staffing? At least initially. Sounds very FAA.
Sometimes you have to make it worse initially for it to ever have a chance in hell of getting better.
It won’t ever get better on Long Island
DankVectorz said:because per FAA projections by end of 2022 we will have only 98 CPC’s in all of N90 out of 226 for 100%. They feel moving EWR to PHL would attract more qualified transfers and cut down on the number of withdrawals from training. When NCEPT dropped, 32 trainees withdrew from training rather then get stuck on LI.
Have they come up with a solution to the operational nightmare that is going to be having the EWR and LGA areas in different facilities? What's gonna happen to the "special use" line procedures once those two areas are not under the same roof? There is nowhere in the .65 where you can separate aircraft using course divergence based off an airspace boundary. What's gonna happen when LGA goes to the ILS 13? We made that shitshow work because we were all in the same room together. I'm curious how they plan to make it work as two separate entities.
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