NATCA is going to secure a 50% raise for sure

[Periculant]

$50/hr is $104k year. Anyone level 7 and above with “rest of US” locality is making that or more and most with a few years in the FAA in lower levels are too. So yeah, it’s pretty easy.

CHA - Chattanooga Tower

Chattanooga Tower (CHA) is an FAA control tower and approach control in Chattanooga, Tennessee. View details including hours, location, phone number, salary, and staffing.

123atc.com

You are incorrect… 91k

 

[DankVectorz]

CHA - Chattanooga Tower

Chattanooga Tower (CHA) is an FAA control tower and approach control in Chattanooga, Tennessee. View details including hours, location, phone number, salary, and staffing.

123atc.com

You are incorrect… 91k

Sure, now throw in differentials and holiday pay etc.

 

[FightingIrish2012]

$50/hr is $104k year. Anyone level 7 and above with “rest of US” locality is making that or more and most with a few years in the FAA in lower levels are too. So yeah, it’s pretty easy.

Check the pay bands, maybe you are imagining what it would be like if we actually got inflation level raises????

 

[Periculant]

Sure, now throw in differentials and holiday pay etc.

Okay so I can't take holidays off?

 

[FightingIrish2012]

DarkVectors must be a Long Island boy, maybe had his Dad control or supervisor at N90? Clearly he has only been there and certified (impressive I guess…???).

But he is in almost as high an ivory tower as the NEB, can’t imagine what it’s like to make below $50 an hour because he never has, and can’t imagine anyone can complain in any facility about “the best job in the world”.

 

[ncssailor]

$50/hr is $104k year. Anyone level 7 and above with “rest of US” locality is making that or more and most with a few years in the FAA in lower levels are too. So yeah, it’s pretty easy.

You’re talking 17+ years level 6 band to even get to that at RUS. That’s more than a few years.

Sure, now throw in differentials and holiday pay etc.

Shouldn’t have to be counting differentials to get there.

 

[Raise when?]

DarkVectors must be a Long Island boy, maybe had his Dad control or supervisor at N90? Clearly he has only been there and certified (impressive I guess…???).

But he is in almost as high an ivory tower as the NEB, can’t imagine what it’s like to make below $50 an hour because he never has, and can’t imagine anyone can complain in any facility about “the best job in the world”.

Don’t forget his extra CIP pay. Doesn’t n90 get 25% CIP?

Don’t get me wrong, we all deserve raises, but it’s unsurprising a guy from N90 arguing everyone is well paid lol.

Shouldn’t have to be counting differentials to get there.

Just count all the mandatory OT! It’s no big deal to work 6 days a week for years on end!

 

[DankVectorz]

Doesn’t n90 get 25% CIP?

No

DarkVectors must be a Long Island boy, maybe had his Dad control or supervisor at N90? Clearly he has only been there and certified (impressive I guess…???).

But he is in almost as high an ivory tower as the NEB, can’t imagine what it’s like to make below $50 an hour because he never has, and can’t imagine anyone can complain in any facility about “the best job in the world”.

Lol I remember why I have you on ignore now. No, I’m not a long Island boy. Actually can’t stand LI and no other ATC or supervisors in the family.

I’m fine with complaining about pay and do think the bands all need to go up. What I do have a problem with is disingenuous arguments and false equivalencies which is what most of this thread has been.

And btw I’m a trade school graduate who worked as a mechanic before enlisting, plenty of experience making well below $50/hr or whatever the equivalent was pre-2014. I didn’t get hired by FAA til I was 30.

 

[Top5fatcat]

Lol I remember why I have you on ignore now. No, I’m not a long Island boy. Actually can’t stand LI and no other ATC or supervisors in the family.

I’m fine with complaining about pay and do think the bands all need to go up. What I do have a problem with is disingenuous arguments and false equivalencies which is what most of this thread has been.

And btw I’m a trade school graduate who worked as a mechanic before enlisting, plenty of experience making well below $50/hr or whatever the equivalent was pre-2014. I didn’t get hired by FAA til I was 30.

LOL this dude gets run out every few months as the token N90 shill to circle the wagons and cry about how bad they have it on Long Island, as if the rent isnt too damn high everywhere else. Then he says "No" when asked if they get 25% CIP, but doesnt mention that its actually 20. Then condescendingly brags about blocking others who don't buy into the Eastern Region Baghdad Bob propaganda bit. Dude the N90 schtick was up years ago. No one has the power to stop the scams, but everyone knows you're completely full of shit!

RAZE SUUN! (but pay cuts for N90, god willing)

 

[Periculant]

Lol I remember why I have you on ignore now. No, I’m not a long Island boy. Actually can’t stand LI and no other ATC or supervisors in the family.

I’m fine with complaining about pay and do think the bands all need to go up. What I do have a problem with is disingenuous arguments and false equivalencies which is what most of this thread has been.

And btw I’m a trade school graduate who worked as a mechanic before enlisting, plenty of experience making well below $50/hr or whatever the equivalent was pre-2014. I didn’t get hired by FAA til I was 30.

Growing up my father was in the trades and when I was working Fast-food he was making $40 an hour and I was making $5 an hour. That is 800% more. Now we have Fastfood workers making half of what Air Traffic Controllers make. Glad they are making $20 an hour but ATC is severely underpaid and overworked.

 

[Deuce]

LOL this dude gets run out every few months as the token N90 shill to circle the wagons and cry about how bad they have it on Long Island, as if the rent isnt too damn high everywhere else. Then he says "No" when asked if they get 25% CIP, but doesnt mention that its actually 20. Then condescendingly brags about blocking others who don't buy into the Eastern Region Baghdad Bob propaganda bit. Dude the N90 schtick was up years ago. No one has the power to stop the scams, but everyone knows you're completely full of shit!

RAZE SUUN! (but pay cuts for N90, god willing)

N90 gets 10% cip, they got 25% from August 2017 til August 2021

 

[DankVectorz]

LOL this dude gets run out every few months as the token N90 shill to circle the wagons and cry about how bad they have it on Long Island, as if the rent isnt too damn high everywhere else. Then he says "No" when asked if they get 25% CIP, but doesnt mention that its actually 20. Then condescendingly brags about blocking others who don't buy into the Eastern Region Baghdad Bob propaganda bit. Dude the N90 schtick was up years ago. No one has the power to stop the scams, but everyone knows you're completely full of shit!

RAZE SUUN! (but pay cuts for N90, god willing)

We don’t get 20% either. There was a few years we got 25% but that ended a while ago. Don’t remember exactly when but it’s been a few years now. Keep up that good investigative work though!

Growing up my father was in the trades and when I was working Fast-food he was making $40 an hour and I was making $5 an hour. That is 800% more. Now we have Fastfood workers making half of what Air Traffic Controllers make. Glad they are making $20 an hour but ATC is severely underpaid and overworked.

I haven’t disputed ATC is underpaid. I’m discounting that fast food is a good alternative career and that your hyperbole is bullshit. If you’re going to make an argument, make a good one. Stick with the inflation argument, not bs scenarios about moving to parts of the country nobody wants to live in so you can make $20/hr working at McDonald and consider that equivalent qol as working ATC pretty much anywhere else.

 

[MoreMoneyLessProblems]

I haven’t disputed ATC is underpaid. I’m discounting that fast food is a good alternative career and that your hyperbole is bullshit. If you’re going to make an argument, make a good one. Stick with the inflation argument, not bs scenarios about moving to parts of the country nobody wants to live in so you can make $20/hr working at McDonald and consider that equivalent qol as working ATC pretty much anywhere else.

Honestly, we should just do away with the current COL adjustments. It never makes sense to me how Houston gets close to 35% but is easily the cheapest city to live in. Meanwhile places like Miami, or Oakland are waaaay more expensive and yet have a lower COL even though the COL is significantly higher. Instead we should have a standard rate so all facilities are treated equally.

Next they should give everybody a raise because #razewen but also because our job is way more stressful and requires much more perfection than most other professions and yet we are not paid accordingly.

 

[Fat Porrey]

Fat Porrey here with RAZE WEN MVMNT…

There is no disputing how far the pay lags in this job. Let’s keep N90 and use them as an example, if you look up the salary of two recent N90 based Eastern region RVPs, in 2006(end of the Green Book) it was $159,875. Plug that into any inflation calculator and you’re right at $250,000 in 2023. How many controllers have a base salary of $250,000 today? (I’ll give you a hint…none).

Why does N90 deserve all this extra cash when we all need RAZE NAU?

ignore the level 9s and below for a minute and talk about big boy facilities, how come 2 of the 4 shortest staffed facilities in the NAS that are Lvl10+ (MIA and A80) don’t get CIP? What about D10? A90?

RAZE WEN MVMNT serves to unite, not divide. Brother and sisters, we are underpaid. Say it with me, together WE ARE UNDERPAID! Don’t let the greedy N90 cats convince you otherwise, they too are underpaid.

RAZE SUUN.

 

[Periculant]

I haven’t disputed ATC is underpaid. I’m discounting that fast food is a good alternative career and that your hyperbole is bullshit. If you’re going to make an argument, make a good one. Stick with the inflation argument, not bs scenarios about moving to parts of the country nobody wants to live in so you can make $20/hr working at McDonald and consider that equivalent qol as working ATC pretty much anywhere else.

Many people would gladly move to rural parts of California to increase their QoL. I can guarantee that the rural McDonalds in California are going to be max staffed. If fast-food pay from 2006 to 2024 has increased by 400% then $5 to $20 now... It is also important to note that $20 is MINIMUM WAGE... So they will get raises too. In another 18 years and another 400% that $20 is gonna be $80. So if you are 16 do you go through YEARS of training to become an ATC or do you work for McDonalds? The hiring process for ATC is 1-2 years then 2 years of training (on average) for a $45 job (assuming you pass a 60% success rate OKC and a 60% average facility checkout you have a 1 in 3 chance of checking out)... or Work at McDonalds and start at $20 an hour.. day 1 with 15-25 days of paid leave and bonuses..

You said you make $90 an hour... lets look at work as efficiency... Aviation allows people to be more efficient with their time aka less time traveling by car or horse back. We use minimum separation for aircraft going into and out of airports to allow the maximum amount of people and goods to travel in the shortest amount of time possible as well as the environmental advantage that provides. Do you really think that 5 McDonalds workers benefit society as much at just you? 5 McDonalds workers = 1 ATC?

The time a Mcdonalds workers saves someone is effectively packing a meal. How many meals do you have to pack to benefit society as much as an ATC running sequences all day. Work to pay ratio is way better for a McDonalds worker.

 

[ajmezz]

Honestly, we should just do away with the current COL adjustments. It never makes sense to me how Houston gets close to 35% but is easily the cheapest city to live in. Meanwhile places like Miami, or Oakland are waaaay more expensive and yet have a lower COL even though the COL is significantly higher. Instead we should have a standard rate so all facilities are treated equally.

Next they should give everybody a raise because #razewen but also because our job is way more stressful and requires much more perfection than most other professions and yet we are not paid accordingly.

That’s because people inherently misunderstand what locality really is. Locality is less about cost of living and more about the competitiveness of the job market. Eg nasa’s huge presence in houston.. although majority of controllers wouldn’t qualify for those types of jobs, it equals a higher locality.

At least that’s how it was explained to me before when I griped about it 🤷‍♂️

 

[Periculant]

Honestly, we should just do away with the current COL adjustments. It never makes sense to me how Houston gets close to 35% but is easily the cheapest city to live in. Meanwhile places like Miami, or Oakland are waaaay more expensive and yet have a lower COL even though the COL is significantly higher. Instead we should have a standard rate so all facilities are treated equally.

Next they should give everybody a raise because #razewen but also because our job is way more stressful and requires much more perfection than most other professions and yet we are not paid accordingly.

I think similarly but people would feel like they lost out if this happened.

So similarly I think we should keep every bit of pay we currently have and get Basic Allowance for housing (BAH) like the military. If BAH was provided to members it would massively increase our pay and the military already has rates it pays out so the FAA could just use those same models.

 

[Fat Porrey]

Honestly, we should just do away with the current COL adjustments. It never makes sense to me how Houston gets close to 35% but is easily the cheapest city to live in. Meanwhile places like Miami, or Oakland are waaaay more expensive and yet have a lower COL even though the COL is significantly higher. Instead we should have a standard rate so all facilities are treated equally.

Next they should give everybody a raise because #razewen but also because our job is way more stressful and requires much more perfection than most other professions and yet we are not paid accordingly.

Oakland locality is 10% higher (44.25%) than Houston (34.47%)

 

[DankVectorz]

That’s because people inherently misunderstand what locality really is. Locality is less about cost of living and more about the competitiveness of the job market. Eg nasa’s huge presence in houston.. although majority of controllers wouldn’t qualify for those types of jobs, it equals a higher locality.

At least that’s how it was explained to me before when I griped about it 🤷‍♂️

Yes this is true. It should be revamped into actually being based on CoL.

 

[Fat Porrey]

Yes this is true. It should be revamped into actually being based on CoL.

That would require the NEB to (gasp!!) speak about changes that which will NOT be spoken of CIP