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Ad1234

Trusted Contributor
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410
Gotta disagree with you there. 20% won’t change CPC motivation (not sure where you work but here the motivation to check devs out is high) nor will it change the quality of trainee the faa is hiring and OKC is pushing out.

Sure…You could make it 50% and the only thing it would do is create a bunch of CPCs that shouldn’t be certified and who would be an enormous detriment to the NAS.

You can’t blame CPCs when there are trainees on the control floor who call traffic for “bonanza 9 limas” or “airbus three thirty twos” or “Boeing seven thirty nines” or ask how the runways get their “names from”…all true stories.

The faa is like an engineering firm who hires people with liberal arts degrees.

Unless there’s a change in who we are hiring there will be no significant change in anyone’s success rate. There are entirely too many trainees hired simply because they applied. And they applied only because they heard it was a good job yet have never had an interest in aviation. Aviation experience 100% matters and makes a difference in who is more likely to be successful.
Trainees are a product of their environment. Many people will always be lazy and not give a crap, but if they are taught not to be a savage every man for themself type, they won’t be. And don’t give me this crap it’s not my job to teach culture. They see the shit around them, they simply just become a different pile.

This comes from trainers not knowing how to professionally document how bad they are, managers who are equally as unable, they were also cpc once, and an FAA who does a piss poor job training trainers and not giving them the tools they need to hold shitty trainees accountable. But if 20 percent doesn’t give you incentive enough, especially since you’ll ultimately be working side by side with these people, your training priorities need to be realigned.
 
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I.DO.VEHCTAHS

Member
Messages
11
Nope. The only thing worse than a bad trainee is a trainer who gives a trainee shit for doing things by the book
If they were to call it a 737-nine hundred…sure…no ballz to be busted there…but a Boeing seven thirty nine doesn’t exist. So…make sure you’re reading the right book?

Trainees are a product of their environment. Many people will always be lazy and not give a crap, but if they are taught not to be a savage every man for themself type, they won’t be. And don’t give me this crap it’s not my job to teach culture. They see the shit around them, they simply just become a different pile.

This comes from trainers not knowing how to professionally document how bad they are, managers who are equally as unable, they were also cpc once, and an FAA who does a piss poor job training trainers and not giving them the tools they need to hold shitty trainees accountable. But if 20 percent doesn’t give you incentive enough, especially since you’ll ultimately be working side by side with these people, your training priorities need to be realigned
Actually…i will agree…we are 100% in charge of what culture our trainees are molded by. And personally, I make it a priority to point out the good the bad and the ugly to my trainees.

But there’s still the need for trainee to have the ability/desire to DO the job and that’s different than the desire to HAVE the job. And 20% won’t change that. Nor will it change the ability of some CPCs to actually be an effective trainer - because you’re right about the faa/NATCA having a piss poor education/pipeline to become OJTI’s

This will be another bullet point NATCA and the faa use to support privatization in the future.
 

Ad1234

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410
Actually…i will agree…we are 100% in charge of what culture our trainees are molded by. And personally, I make it a priority to point out the good the bad and the ugly to my trainees.

But there’s still the need for trainee to have the ability/desire to DO the job and that’s different than the desire to HAVE the job. And 20% won’t change that. Nor will it change the ability of some CPCs to actually be an effective trainer - because you’re right about the faa/NATCA having a piss poor education/pipeline to become OJTI’s

This will be another bullet point NATCA and the faa use to support privatization in the future.
Hold the trainees accountable and they won’t have an option. Instead they learn how to scam By seeing what’s around them. The FAA/Natca training program sucks partly because of who they choose to teach, but have you been in the Ojti class? No one gives a fuck and the ones who do are made fun of. It’s like high school all over again. Not to mention hardly any trainers/managers actually know the .4 or even care to look, let alone how to actually train or instruct for success. You might have a couple at each facility.

The trainees who don’t have the ability or desire will stand out like a sore thumb and be easily removed or rise to the occasion.
 

rhombus

Trusted Contributor
Messages
255
If they were to call it a 737-nine hundred…sure…no ballz to be busted there…but a Boeing seven thirty nine doesn’t exist. So…make sure you’re reading the right book?
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I hope you already know this but B739 and A332 are type designators. Just like A388 is the designator but the airplane itself is a 380. Both are fine. You've decided that your way of saying something is law even though you won't find that phraseology anywhere. You reading the right book?
 

I.DO.VEHCTAHS

Member
Messages
11
View attachment 7973
View attachment 7974

I hope you already know this but B739 and A332 are type designators. Just like A388 is the designator but the airplane itself is a 380. Both are fine. You've decided that your way of saying something is law even though you won't find that phraseology anywhere. You reading the right book?
No one says that. Literally no one and you know it.

Is a A319 and an airbus three ten niner?

Would you say a Boeing seven forty eight?

No you wouldn’t and you know it.

My point is they read shit and have zero idea what they’re saying

Bonanza 9 Lima signing off.

Traffic off the nose, 5 miles, dropping’ like a rock out of 12k; Boeing seven three. 🙃
“Ummmm can you identity the series please…I see a -800 but I’m not sure that’s the one you mean”
 

I.DO.VEHCTAHS

Member
Messages
11
Stroke

I wouldn’t but that’s not the point. If you’re going to criticize people for trivial things at least make sure what they’re doing is incorrect.
I think the way I laid it out made it obvious that it wasn’t trivial and part of a larger knowledge issue for a person(s) who have been in the agency for years
 

Pot_Stirrer

Member
Messages
25
I think the way I laid it out made it obvious that it wasn’t trivial and part of a larger knowledge issue for a person(s) who have been in the agency for years
Ahh yes. The Trump mentality. Get proven wrong with a quote directly from the book then double down on your stupidity. Not a bad move honestly.
 

Mr.Tickles

Trusted Contributor
Messages
476
I think the way I laid it out made it obvious that it wasn’t trivial and part of a larger knowledge issue for a person(s) who have been in the agency for years
If a person has been in the agency for years and it’s how they’ve always been then the issue lies with their trainers. If someone comes into this job with a lack of knowledge and is not required to increase their knowledge to a certain level that’s on the trainers.

Seems to me that most garbage controllers were garbage trainees that either should have never certified or were allowed to remain mediocre during training. In both cases the responsibility for allowing that to happen usually falls on the trainers.
 

I.DO.VEHCTAHS

Member
Messages
11
If a person has been in the agency for years and it’s how they’ve always been then the issue lies with their trainers. If someone comes into this job with a lack of knowledge and is not required to increase their knowledge to a certain level that’s on the trainers.

Seems to me that most garbage controllers were garbage trainees that either should have never certified or were allowed to remain mediocre during training. In both cases the responsibility for allowing that to happen usually falls on the trainers.
The responsibility for a trainee to have a proper knowledge base of aircraft types 100% does not lie upon the shoulders of an OJTI on the control floor lol.

Ahh yes. The Trump mentality. Get proven wrong with a quote directly from the book then double down on your stupidity. Not a bad move honestly.
I’ve been compared to trump FML lol

I’m admittedly not the biggest book nerd but you get my point… I’m afraid to ask what they would call a BCS2.
 

Mr.Tickles

Trusted Contributor
Messages
476
The responsibility for a trainee to have a proper knowledge base of aircraft types 100% does not lie upon the shoulders of an OJTI on the control floor lol.

I think the way I laid it out made it obvious that it wasn’t trivial and part of a larger knowledge issue for a person(s) who have been in the agency for years

Your comment was clearly referring to more than just aircraft types.

It’s not the trainers responsibility to ensure a trainees knowledge level is up to standard before certification? Who’s responsibility is it then?
 
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I guarantee your trainers or that Cessna or that “book” are not gonna give a shit if you call it a 737 or a 737 900 series as long as you make the traffic call.
I agree. I’d rather have a trainee bonehead this and be able to push planes as opposed to an aviation geek that couldn’t separate but knew every plane down to a T
 

AB19

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Messages
1,570
The responsibility for a trainee to have a proper knowledge base of aircraft types 100% does not lie upon the shoulders of an OJTI on the control floor lol.


I’ve been compared to trump FML lol

I’m admittedly not the biggest book nerd but you get my point… I’m afraid to ask what they would call a BCS2.
Wtf is a bcs2
 
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