Slate Book Extended Until 2029

[But_I_Had_Visual]

Yah it was 7 people on the internet who flooded three days of town halls and all said the same thing. We need something more than a singular person with total power to do whatever they want.

I think he means it was 7 people in regards to the light blue and purple book banging the drum. While I found those contract negotiations and NATCAs patting themselves on the back completely ridiculous, I wasn’t shocked they were ratified. I mean we’re talking about people who are off weekends, holidays, and work from home. Their priorities are not the same as actual controllers.

 

[Gauff]

That part i'm not sure about. Its a good question. And im not a lawyer 😅. If there are EOs, the agency will jump at the chance to come back to the table.

Yeah I'm not positive either but it would seem to make sense. Especially if Rich did go and ask to open the contract early and was told they wanted to but didn't have the ability at the moment. Since that language wasn't in the previous MOU 🤷‍♂️

I'm not a Nick fan and think he made a big mistake. But now I'm just hoping that he is actually able to follow through with another avenue for a raise MOU or something significant. If the FAA does want to reopen the contract I expect our president to open and negotiate a new CBA, but I'm also afraid Nick will be too scared. Hopefully Nick sees through these town halls that people are not satisfied with how things are going and expect more from the union. There also do not need to be significant concessions in a new contract to get a raise but under Trump admin I would expect more concessions than under a Dem admin. However I don't like Nick constantly talking about our already gained articles in the contract as leverage to give back for a raise. Our leverage is in the service we provide for our work, the fact that we are an incredibly specialized career field that most people cannot do, the fact that 10%+ of the countries GDP is through air travel that would not exist with our us.

Let's just hope Nick is good for more than buzzwords and doesn't just kick the can to 2030 while he collects 320k+ with a cushy gig doing nothing

 

[32andBelow]

I think he means it was 7 people in regards to the light blue and purple book banging the drum. While I found those contract negotiations and NATCAs patting themselves on the back completely ridiculous, I wasn’t shocked they were ratified. I mean we’re talking about people who are off weekends, holidays, and work from home. Their priorities are not the same as actual controllers.

They were in the same boat we were to ratify.

 

[ManBearPig]

Yeah I'm not positive either but it would seem to make sense. Especially if Rich did go and ask to open the contract early and was told they wanted to but didn't have the ability at the moment. Since that language wasn't in the previous MOU 🤷‍♂️

I'm not a Nick fan and think he made a big mistake. But now I'm just hoping that he is actually able to follow through with another avenue for a raise MOU or something significant. If the FAA does want to reopen the contract I expect our president to open and negotiate a new CBA, but I'm also afraid Nick will be too scared. Hopefully Nick sees through these town halls that people are not satisfied with how things are going and expect more from the union. There also do not need to be significant concessions in a new contract to get a raise but under Trump admin I would expect more concessions than under a Dem admin. However I don't like Nick constantly talking about our already gained articles in the contract as leverage to give back for a raise. Our leverage is in the service we provide for our work, the fact that we are an incredibly specialized career field that most people cannot do, the fact that 10%+ of the countries GDP is through air travel that would not exist with our us.

Let's just hope Nick is good for more than buzzwords and doesn't just kick the can to 2030 while he collects 320k+ with a cushy gig doing nothing

I 100% respect that take!!

Yeah that would make sense we could do it if Rich asked. There maybe some legal extra hoops if that language isnt in there?

I don't think Nick will be too scared. At least I hope not. He took sole responsibility of this extension, and basically let the NEB off the hook of having to make a vote or fight about it. Having them tell you what to do would have been the easy thing to do. I also don't think a contract team would concede a bunch of things. Nick said in the telecon they would go to arbitration of pay in all likely hood. Keeping what we have is far easier than taking more.

I have come to the conclusion that the political party almost doesn't matter. Trump is only unique because of his anti-union EO BS. Other then those, he might as well be Biden. Us endorsing is stupid. We didn't endorse Biden last time, and it was the right move. The Teamsters playing both sides this time was the right move. This cycle, the NEB and NLC have treated our legislative team as their personal political agenda's errand boys. Paul and Trish weren't perfect, but they could at least make it look like they wanted to support those who support us. The FAA admin is a bigger deal to me now. I think it would be dumb AF to go to the table with Mark House as acting (last I heard it was going to be that cock gobbler). We will be in a better position with a political appointee IMO. There is the possibility to enact more political influence.

If I am wrong, I'll be the first to admit it. If Nick hadn't extended, I would have thought it was wrong, but would still be in line to fight for us. I have zero issue if people think Nick was wrong to do this. Tell him you think he was wrong. But fuck let's atleast go into what ever fight is next together.

 

[SquawkHijack]

In the end they will get your money. You’re really showing them.

The key is making it extremely inconvenient for the national office to send a message without violating the constitution. Being akin to 100% payroll deduction and then suddenly processing hundreds of checks to collect dues and possibly having to send some back for errors would be a fucking nightmare for their finance department.

 

[32andBelow]

The key is making it extremely inconvenient for the national office to send a message without violating the constitution. Being akin to 100% payroll deduction and then suddenly processing hundreds of checks to collect dues and possibly having to send some back for errors would be a fucking nightmare for their finance department.

The slate book makes it sound like you have to do automatic deduction. Where are people getting this direct pay from?

 

[SquawkHijack]

This guy at 58 min is both right and wrong. The polls for NNE and NCE are relevant to those RVPs only. The fact that this was ‘the data we had’ does not make it relevant data. We have no proof what the membership wanted and that is a problem. And no anonymous message boards don’t count. There has to be national participation. Before anything is signed. HowTF do we not know what the membership wants? We need to poll everyone and we need to change the constitution to mandate ratification of an extension. It’s a crime that hasn’t been done already after Paul’s extension catastrophe.
Another problem is he said he would not do this and then he did it. Irreconcilable.

As an NCE region member, I can attest that no effort to see what any consensus was on any of these issues was made.

But then again, if you’re outside a Z or the core 30’s NATCA doesn’t give a fiddler’s fuck.

The slate book makes it sound like you have to do automatic deduction. Where are people getting this direct pay from?

I believe from the national constitution around where it discusses dues being in arrears, but I am not entirely sure on that.

 

[32andBelow]

As an NCE region member, I can attest that no effort to see what any consensus was on any of these issues was made.

But then again, if you’re outside a Z or the core 30’s NATCA doesn’t give a fiddler’s fuck.

They don’t give a fuck at some Zs either

 

[HurryUpandWait]

I’m sure most don’t like Tucker but listening to O’Brien speak is a breath of fresh air. The statement at 9:47.

 

[GroundClutter]

I think he means it was 7 people in regards to the light blue and purple book banging the drum. While I found those contract negotiations and NATCAs patting themselves on the back completely ridiculous, I wasn’t shocked they were ratified. I mean we’re talking about people who are off weekends, holidays, and work from home. Their priorities are not the same as actual controllers.

And these are the same dummies that carried Nick?

 

[Nothanks]

I’m sure most don’t like Tucker but listening to O’Brien speak is a breath of fresh air. The statement at 9:47.

Keep listening. “ it’s not a sprint it’s a marathon”

 

[CreepyPineapple]

Keep listening. “ it’s not a sprint it’s a marathon”

Must be an ultramarathon for us

 

[Ralph Capone]

I knew what I said would be unpopular. I'm advocating for Nick to go. Anyone on the board that bowed down and let their members down needs to go. Anyone that drinks up our dues, feels entitled to spend our money because they did a single Zoom call on their WFH 114 gig while their brothers and sisters worked short. They need to go back to the boards with Daniels and the rest of the sell outs.

I want the cancer gone. ALL OF IT. But that doesn't mean everyone in the "system" right now is a villain. Putting people you don't know in the "others" category is how we got here. The Nick Daniels types think they know better than us, think they're smarter and that we don't get it. Let's not commit the same error. Remove the cancer, save what we can.

I'm not a 114. Not an area rep. Not a facility rep. Never been a delegate. But bet your fucking ass I'm running for some positions if I stay in. I'll reform what I can or expose what I can, while I can. I still have a while left in this career, I'm not eligible anytime soon. If I can make any change for the better then that's a win for me. I hope some other folks take it upon themselves to do the same and hopefully we'll meet in the middle someday.

Did you type this on your 2 hour break?

 

[ZuluZulu]

I’m sure most don’t like Tucker but listening to O’Brien speak is a breath of fresh air. The statement at 9:47.

I hadn’t seen this, thank you for sharing. One thing Sean said that really stood out to me was how teamsters had been there for him and his family through good and bad. He always felt supported. Yesterday someone said to Nick that his facility felt like he didn’t have empathy for us. And I cant always decipher the message through all the words Nick uses, but his response to that, which I couldn’t quote to save my life, just reiterated that he doesn’t.

He’s not receptive to feedback, and the town halls felt almost patronizing. Like “okay I’m going to let you guys vent so you can feel better,” with no effort to learn or understand or empathize. What was gained? I personally feel worse about this whole ordeal after 3 days of watching him grow stronger in his convictions and almost mocking the people who challenge him with facts. What was the point? I originally was in the camp of giving him credit for allowing so many people to give him hell but I’ve since changed as it seems the intent was just to create an illusion of listening to members. He let members talk. But he didn’t hear them.

Now that the anger has worn off it’s really just kinda… sad.

 

[CoffeeIV]

As an NCE region member, I can attest that no effort to see what any consensus was on any of these issues was made.

But then again, if you’re outside a Z or the core 30’s NATCA doesn’t give a fiddler’s fuck.

NATCA doesn't care about most Core 30s. Core-30s live in higher cost of living. Get paid less for working more traffic per controller than ever. A lot of airports got rid of ramp control and now Ground has to work it with no pay increase. Oh and just about every Core-30 is in a high cost of living area compared to Z's. ZOA can complain all they want but SFO and OAK have it worst. ZJX is well outside Jacksonville. ZDC is in a much cheaper area compared to IAD, DCA, and BWI. ZDV well outside of Denver. ZTL well outside of Atlanta. ZAU outside Chicago compared to ORD and RFD.

But hey, at least Nick is going to try and convince the FAA to redo the complexity formula while tower/tracon controllers get absolutely fucked on commuting and cost of living because NATCA only cares about centers.

 

[theflyingpig]

I didn't realize the N in NATCA was Nick.
Nick's Air Traffic Controller Association

santa is on the eastern region call this morning. some things that have been said in this thread were confirmed

no vote by the NEB on the extension. text by nick at 545am to Mick to support extension. Mick did not support it. Nick then said he would not bring it to a vote.

this is a president that went rogue. he lied in his campaign to get votes, to win. he went against his NEB, against the membership's voice. he feels the poll results were skewed and things have changed since we were polled. he claims he has 1000s of texts and emails that support his decision. absent a national poll asking our opinion right now we won't have the data. he knows that if he put out a nation poll it would confirm that we did not want to extend. he hides under the guise that as president he can just do whatever he wants per the constitution justifying his decision as "the results were in the election".

that being said, we aren't going to be able to impeach him. he isn't going to step down. nick has the neb locked down and they aren't going to fracture. I dont think leaving the union right now is the right decision. you are going to lose your voice, your vote. we are going to need that for this convention. I am certain that there will be a proposed amendment to the constitution that will stop these unilateral decisions. if that fails and we still have not seen wins then it will be time to send a message

 

[Whiskey Charlie]

I didn't realize the N in NATCA was Nick.
Nick's Air Traffic Controller Association

santa is on the eastern region call this morning. some things that have been said in this thread were confirmed

no vote by the NEB on the extension. text by nick at 545am to Mick to support extension. Mick did not support it. Nick then said he would not bring it to a vote.

this is a president that went rogue. he lied in his campaign to get votes, to win. he went against his NEB, against the membership's voice. he feels the poll results were skewed and things have changed since we were polled. he claims he has 1000s of texts and emails that support his decision. absent a national poll asking our opinion right now we won't have the data. he knows that if he put out a nation poll it would confirm that we did not want to extend. he hides under the guise that as president he can just do whatever he wants per the constitution justifying his decision as "the results were in the election".

that being said, we aren't going to be able to impeach him. he isn't going to step down. nick has the neb locked down and they aren't going to fracture. I dont think leaving the union right now is the right decision. you are going to lose your voice, your vote. we are going to need that for this convention. I am certain that there will be a proposed amendment to the constitution that will stop these unilateral decisions. if that fails and we still have not seen wins then it will be time to send a message

I like where your head is at, but WHEN it fails at convention we are stuck paying for the remainder of the year. I’m good. After listening to 2/3 of the town halls it’s clear we aren’t getting a decent raise soon. That’s most of what matters to me based on current ridiculous cost of living in the country.

 

[Kramer]

I like where your head is at, but WHEN it fails at convention we are stuck paying for the remainder of the year. I’m good. After listening to 2/3 of the town halls it’s clear we aren’t getting a decent raise soon. That’s most of what matters to me based on current ridiculous cost of living in the country.

How exactly does amendments work at the convention? Who votes on it? All members present in attendance?

 

[theflyingpig]

I like where your head is at, but WHEN it fails at convention we are stuck paying for the remainder of the year. I’m good. After listening to 2/3 of the town halls it’s clear we aren’t getting a decent raise soon. That’s most of what matters to me based on current ridiculous cost of living in the country.

I hear ya and that's your decision I dont judge you. but leaving will only make it harder to make changes. this convention is our chance to make the change. if it fails then id say make the decision to leave

 

[jdatc]

I hear ya and that's your decision I dont judge you. but leaving will only make it harder to make changes. this convention is our chance to make the change. if it fails then id say make the decision to leave

I agree with the sentiment, however, a similar amendment was proposed in 2021 and 2023…. Many people probably figure what’s the point now in 2025?

I hope people take it seriously this time. Maybe third time is the charm.

2021: A 21-21

https://www.natca.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Dec-9-10-Convention-Booklet-2021-Houston-Convention-3.pdf

2023 RS 23-11

https://www.natca.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Proposed-Amendments-2023-2.pdf