Speed Assignments

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When an aircraft is cleared for the Visual approach and you assign a speed, is it 170 knots to the "FAF" or to a "5 mile final"? I cannot seem to find it in the 7110 so if someone could point me in the direction of the reference that would be very helpful! Thanks.
 
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5-7-1 d specifies FAF or 5-mile final. There is no FAF for a visual approach. It would be to a point.

Edit: added reference
 
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.65 says speed restrictions are cancelled when cleared for an approach unless restated, which then are good to the FAF or 5 mile final, whichever is closer... While it is a common practice to give a fix/faf for speed restrictions on a VA, me thinks that's the reason for the 5 mile cutoff; to have a uniformed distance to be able to slap speed restrictions on a/c on a VA.
 
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Visual approach has no FAF, or any other fixes. If I'm flying inbound in a fully RNAV capable plane, and I'm given a speed to a fix while on a visual approach, I'll tell the controller "unable, I don't know where that fix is" just to prove a point.
Use mileage or other visual reference when giving speeds to a visual approach.
 
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Stinger said:
Visual approach has no FAF, or any other fixes. If I'm flying inbound in a fully RNAV capable plane, and I'm given a speed to a fix while on a visual approach, I'll tell the controller "unable, I don't know where that fix is" just to prove a point.
Use mileage or other visual reference when giving speeds to a visual approach.
Click to expand...

try this at TEB please. (However, at TEB you're always being vectored for an ils first so you'll have the fixes dialed up already)
 
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Stinger said:
Visual approach has no FAF, or any other fixes. If I'm flying inbound in a fully RNAV capable plane, and I'm given a speed to a fix while on a visual approach, I'll tell the controller "unable, I don't know where that fix is" just to prove a point.
Use mileage or other visual reference when giving speeds to a visual approach.
Click to expand...

I would pull you out of the sequence "just to prove a point"....
 
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The thing is though, on a visual approach, especially if that is what is being advertised, even though like 99.9% are backing it up with the ILS, there’s no requirement to do so and I wouldn’t think any expectation to do so. That’s why maintain a speed to X-mile final as opposed to an ILS or RNAV point. So even though it might be annoying, to punish a pilot for not having something he’s not supposed to have is kind of a dick move. I get that you were kinda joking but probably kinda not joking haha:)
 
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DankVectorz said:
Well if I gave you "direct" and you were able to take it...
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Yes, that would be a huge clue. You don't really have to think about it since the majority of your traffic all comes in on RNAV STARs though. Fedex was probably the last of the major airlines to be fully RNAV capable. Their 727s were only /W.
I see this sometimes: airplane is told to expect the visual approach. Gets vectors for sequence. Is given a vector and told to intercept the localizer. Is cleared visual approach with a speed to maintain until the ILS FAF. Barely even considered a visual approach at that point. I'd say the controller is lucky the pilot even has the localizer frequency tuned.
 
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Stinger said:
Yes, that would be a huge clue. You don't really have to think about it since the majority of your traffic all comes in on RNAV STARs though. Fedex was probably the last of the major airlines to be fully RNAV capable. Their 727s were only /W.
I see this sometimes: airplane is told to expect the visual approach. Gets vectors for sequence. Is given a vector and told to intercept the localizer. Is cleared visual approach with a speed to maintain until the ILS FAF. Barely even considered a visual approach at that point. I'd say the controller is lucky the pilot even has the localizer frequency tuned.
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Based on the number of wrong runway and wrong surface landings (shout out to the Top Five) clearly many pilots dontd have it tuned in, or are simply ignoring it. Due to the spacing of our runways that is how we issue visual approach clearances all day. A heading to join, occasionally an altitude to maintain (mostly for Bravo airspace, occasionally for traffic) cleared visual approach, maintain 170 knots to the FAF.
 
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Stinger said:
Yes, that would be a huge clue. You don't really have to think about it since the majority of your traffic all comes in on RNAV STARs though. Fedex was probably the last of the major airlines to be fully RNAV capable. Their 727s were only /W.
I see this sometimes: airplane is told to expect the visual approach. Gets vectors for sequence. Is given a vector and told to intercept the localizer. Is cleared visual approach with a speed to maintain until the ILS FAF. Barely even considered a visual approach at that point. I'd say the controller is lucky the pilot even has the localizer frequency tuned.
Click to expand...

DAL had MD88's /w at least through 2014 when I got out of the AF. Always offered him direct Atlanta on departure just so he could say he couldn't do it lol
 
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Back to the original topic, I am in the habit for VA's of giving aircraft direct the FAF for the visual rather than direct the airport so they're set up for a nice 5 mileish final. I used to give them direct the airport but got tired of them asking for the FAF anyway.
 
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DankVectorz said:
DAL had MD88's /w at least through 2014 when I got out of the AF. Always offered him direct Atlanta on departure just so he could say he couldn't do it lol
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Common practice at one of my facility's for FDX 727's was "fly heading XXX, when able direct" to a VOR 700 miles and 3 Centers away.

DankVectorz said:
Back to the original topic, I am in the habit for VA's of giving aircraft direct the FAF for the visual rather than direct the airport so they're set up for a nice 5 mileish final. I used to give them direct the airport but got tired of them asking for the FAF anyway.
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Always weird when direct the FAF leaves them with like a 130 degree turn to final. I know they'll complain about that turn, but also complain if I widen them out a little and then give a heading that'll put them on a 90 degree turn to final. Impossible to win on some routes.
 
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DankVectorz said:
Back to the original topic, I am in the habit for VA's of giving aircraft direct the FAF for the visual rather than direct the airport so they're set up for a nice 5 mileish final. I used to give them direct the airport but got tired of them asking for the FAF anyway.
Click to expand...
Ohhh yeah totally contradicting my earlier post but yeah I do this all the time if it’s going to be a 90-ish degree to the final. If not I just vector them. Ok I take back what I said :p

Stinger said:
Always weird when direct the FAF leaves them with like a 130 degree turn to final. I know they'll complain about that turn, but also complain if I widen them out a little and then give a heading that'll put them on a 90 degree turn to final. Impossible to win on some routes.
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Yessss. Although in my experience they don’t usually ask for the FAF if it will be that much of a turn. Controllers at my facility do it all the time and its so stupid, they put them in this awful spot and they’re ususally high too - then clear them for the visual and switch them to the Tower — then get all mad and surprised when the pilot puts themself on a downwind so they can descend and turn a proper base to final.

When I try to widen them out a bit like you said I feel like they get all indignant like “uhhhh FIELD in SIGHT...” ....... pilots......
 
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