Speed Assignments

[password]

When an aircraft is cleared for the Visual approach and you assign a speed, is it 170 knots to the "FAF" or to a "5 mile final"? I cannot seem to find it in the 7110 so if someone could point me in the direction of the reference that would be very helpful! Thanks.

 

[DankVectorz]

If I can get an airplane below the clouds into good visibility, I'll only vector for an instrument approach if the pilot requests it.

that works at small airports, not so much the bigguns.

 

[Mike Kilo]

Agree with Dank. I imagine with two to sequence that would work assuming they can actually see traffic when it is pointed out. When you get three in the mix, it’s a ballsy move with all direct. Unless you’re hoping the Tower does your job lol.

 

[bravoindia]

If I can get an airplane below the clouds into good visibility, I'll only vector for an instrument approach if the pilot requests it.

Again, you cannot go wrong with an instrument approach. I’m all for visuals when the time is right as you said if I can get them into conditions that are to me going to guarantee a visual approach then they can have it. But when you work with two airports that are 6 miles apart with same exact config or actually have a few in the sequence I’m about what’s best for me and the operation. If that’s a visual approach then so be it.

 

[Stinger]

Agree with Dank. I imagine with two to sequence that would work assuming they can actually see traffic when it is pointed out. When you get three in the mix, it’s a ballsy move with all direct. Unless you’re hoping the Tower does your job lol.

Also works for 9-10 aircraft all on frequency on a mix of downwinds, bases, and straight-ins. It's all about picking your sequence early enough so you can give a good vector and place them in position to see each other.

But when you work with two airports that are 6 miles apart with same exact config or actually have a few in the sequence

Well if it works at a place that has 4 towered airports all within a 10 mile chunk of airspace, I see no reason that it wouldn't work at your facility.
Unless an aircraft is already on a straight-in, vectoring for an instrument is going to at least be an extra 3-6 miles. 3 miles extra for the base, 6 miles for a downwind. And even more wasted space if they'll turn a base on their own at 3 mile final. Places I've worked, there is absolutely no faster way to get aircraft on the ground than effective use of visuals and using them as much as possible.

 

[Mike Kilo]

I gotcha. I thought you were talking about leaving aircraft direct the field for the visuals, and only vectoring when they requested it.

 

[Stinger]

I gotcha. I thought you were talking about leaving aircraft direct the field for the visuals, and only vectoring when they requested it.

I've seen that tried. Not so successful haha
But then the closer they get, the better chance they have of seeing each other 🙂

 

[bravoindia]

Also works for 9-10 aircraft all on frequency on a mix of downwinds, bases, and straight-ins. It's all about picking your sequence early enough so you can give a good vector and place them in position to see each other.


Well if it works at a place that has 4 towered airports all within a 10 mile chunk of airspace, I see no reason that it wouldn't work at your facility.
Unless an aircraft is already on a straight-in, vectoring for an instrument is going to at least be an extra 3-6 miles. 3 miles extra for the base, 6 miles for a downwind. And even more wasted space if they'll turn a base on their own at 3 mile final. Places I've worked, there is absolutely no faster way to get aircraft on the ground than effective use of visuals and using them as much as possible.

Ok so a few things going on here first of all it sounds a lot like your talking about a place like New York. So this quote by you “I'll tell the controller ‘unable, I don't know where that fix is" just to prove a point.’” Is completely unreasonable in that environment. Also in that structure of airspace, shame on a pilot for not having a back up dialed in. It is never a guarantee that you’ll actually get the visual, and if you are a pilot (which it sounds like you are or at least have experience) and do not have a backup plan on an IFR flight plan and are flying around counting on and expecting visual approaches I hope I never have to work you. The only thing by saying “ can’t go wrong with the instrument approach” is that you significantly reduce factors that increase workload on the controller and introduce more risk by a visual approach gone wrong ( wrong surface landing, losing sight of an aircraft to follow or the airport). I do absolutely agree, as to airport arrival rates, that visuals are more efficient. As we know there are plenty of things this job entails that differ facility to facility and if I clear someone for the visual and tell them to maintain 180 to the faf and is unacceptable to them I expect them to tell me and I’ll adjust accordingly. But I’ve never had that happen✈️

 

[MJ]

goin off the rails (runway?). Question answered in first couple posts, thread locked.