Training hold

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Thousands, I don’t understand where you’re coming from, what point are you trying to make other than you are wrong? Trying to ‘gotcha’ 32andbelow? What’s your next argument, “well 25% of 14000 who knows how many that is, where is your source”?View attachment 4376

No argument just messing with him.
Also 14k is not the real number. It’s on the PPT. Just wish people on here gave specifics when making arguments. Let’s strive to be better and a source of actual info not just what we heard in break room.
 
Well since we’re already 5/2 and have people that ignore the mask MOU, why not let the trainees already forced to work train?

Contrary to what two on here will tell you, I am not opposed to training - well, not all training. I personally think we should train R sides who are able to work as presently configured. I do not think D side training should resume because now you’re adding two people to a sector that don’t need to be there.
 
With my facility being back to BWS and traffic is the same as 2019, I’ve been told to make sure I’m in the local area and they’re going to OJTI ASAP
What/which facility(ies) is/are back to the same traffic levels as 2019? I’m curious because I’ve yet to see any numbers indicating such thus far.
 
ahh yes the a80 wizard. I know where this is going. “We don’t have traffic to 100% we can’t train!!”
Just curious, if you were in charge what would your plan be?
Calm down there level four tower flower... I’m curious what facility is at the same level as 2019 because, as of yet, NO ONE has produced numbers that indicate such.

I’d always take the safety route. If the so called medical experts say the agency should be social distancing, then the facility would be social distancing (reduced schedules, spread out positions, et cetera) and wearing masks, with hazard pay. When the time comes that the so called experts say the risk has decreased and masks aren’t needed, I’d stop paying hazard pay, bring back the high risk individuals and trainees to start getting back to normal.
 
Calm down there level four tower flower... I’m curious what facility is at the same level as 2019 because, as of yet, NO ONE has produced numbers that indicate such.

I’d always take the safety route. If the so called experts say the agency should be social distancing, then the facility would be social distancing (reduces schedules, spread out positions, et cetera) and wearing masks, with hazard pay. When the time comes that the so called experts say the risk has decreased and masks aren’t needed, I’d stop paying hazard pay, bring back the high risk individuals and trainees to start getting back to normal.

so you, like others, want to stay on the gravy schedule and not train until there is a vaccinated population? I mean it's okay, and I won't hold it against you, just admit it though. Does everyone at A80 wear a mask?
 
These meetings remind me of those Iraqi dinar scams.
What/which facility(ies) is/are back to the same traffic levels as 2019? I’m curious because I’ve yet to see any numbers indicating such thus far.
If I had to guess it's probably VFR towers or facilities that have a heavy military presence. Our air carrier ops died down for about a month but we had more military coming in because other facilities were denying them services.
 
so you, like others, want to stay on the gravy schedule and not train until there is a vaccinated population? I mean it's okay, and I won't hold it against you, just admit it though. Does everyone at A80 wear a mask?
I’ve mentioned it from the beginning of this pandemic. You, nor I, are contagious disease experts in anyway. If the medical experts are saying that to save lives we need to social distance and wear masks, I’m going to social distance and wear a mask. I get a flu shot every year because it could prevent my daughter from potentially getting sick and my wife gets one because she is an ICU nurse. I’m also much more worried about a measles outbreak from imbeciles not wanting to get their children vaccinated. If the medical experts say COVID-19 is bad, then I’m going to listen to them and not some bitchy trainees on an ATC forum.
 
I’ve mentioned it from the beginning of this pandemic. You, nor I, are contagious disease experts in anyway. If the medical experts are saying that to save lives we need to social distance and wear masks, I’m going to social distance and wear a mask. I get a flu shot every year because it could prevent my daughter from potentially getting sick and my wife gets one because she is an ICU nurse. I’m also much more worried about a measles outbreak from imbeciles not wanting to get their children vaccinated. If the medical experts say COVID-19 is bad, then I’m going to listen to them and not some bitchy trainees on an ATC forum.

That's fine and all, but at some point we gotta figure out a way to deal with COVID, we can't keep going on for years saying well COVID is here so keep the world country locked down. I'm not trying to get political but if movie theaters and pro sports can start, I'm fairly certain we can find a SAFE way to restart training.
 
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Delta is running ATL like FedEx right now. They send a bunch in at once and then they all come back out again. It is no longer a constant flow of departures and arrivals. If you want to train, as presently configured, on that then I think that could be meaningful but we shouldn’t be sitting there when it’s crickets just for the sake of training.
 
That's fine and all, but at some point we gotta figure out a way to deal with COVID, we can't keep going on for years saying well COVID is here so keep the world locked down. I'm not trying to get political but if movie theaters and pro sports can start, I'm fairly certain we can find a SAFE way to restart training.
I completely agree that the medical experts need to find a way to deal with COVID-19 and reduce it from spreading. However, WE don’t have the expertise or resources to do that so WE need to listen to what the medical experts are telling us needs to be done. The entire pandemic has been politicized, by both sides, and it leads people to ignoring what medical experts are saying needs to be done. Churches are opening here and hundreds of people are getting ill. Personally, I know of a church where 90+ people become infected with COVID-19 including 19 people I know and thankfully haven’t been around in months. Professional sports are starting up because they can ISOLATE their employees, potentially away from their own families for extended periods of time, and play their respective sport. Would you, and others, be willing to be isolated, from your families, for the foreseeable future, in order to go back to work, train, and potentially certify? I can tell you I would not be willing to accept that situation.
 
I’ve mentioned it from the beginning of this pandemic. You, nor I, are contagious disease experts in anyway. If the medical experts are saying that to save lives we need to social distance and wear masks, I’m going to social distance and wear a mask. I get a flu shot every year because it could prevent my daughter from potentially getting sick and my wife gets one because she is an ICU nurse. I’m also much more worried about a measles outbreak from imbeciles not wanting to get their children vaccinated. If the medical experts say COVID-19 is bad, then I’m going to listen to them and not some bitchy trainees on an ATC forum.
Imagine if you were a trainee. I know stepping outside of yourself is hard for some of you people on here. I imagine you’d be extremely frustrated too, especially if management forced you to work, and even to work pointless D-sides while completely being silent on training. Some areas have a high cost of living, and trainees depend on some sort of upward momentum in being able to afford to live their lives in a way that’s beyond scrimping and saving waiting for the FAA. Before the “lucky to have a job” argument pops up, it is possible to both be thankful for a job and not automatically take the shovels of shit being fed to you. Salty is right, this isn’t a sustainable way of continuing for an indeterminate amount of time. But I guess as long as it’s all gravy on the 5/10 or 5/5 for you, everything is right in the world and we shouldn’t examine ways to safely train, at the very least, the people that have been working shoulder to shoulder with their “brothers and sisters” during this entire period.
 
It's very easy for someone who isn't having their life jacked up by this to say, "well sorry but this is just how it needs to be." The climate this is creating between trainees and certified controllers is going to be downright hostile if trainees ever come back into the building, and it's getting worse by the day. I fear the culture of places where trainees were never treated like a human being is going to spread almost through the entire agency. CPCs vs Trainees like we've never seen. I feel for the trainees still in the building right now who were deemed essential. If it wasn't the fear of furloughs, I wish they'd sent them home too, and not brought them back. Clearly there is animosity on both sides, politics got involved, it's not going to be pretty. In March there wasn't nearly as much politics involved as there is now, and that's a huge problem. The entire situation is a giant mess and I don't know how we are going to come out of this cleanly. There are no brothers and sisters right now, sorry... it's 110% us vs them and that culture is going to take quite some time to reverse.
 
Its such a weird topic.

One one hand, I don't like that a ton of folks out there have had their careers seemingly put on hold indefinitely. I don't care what the CPC population says (me included), but that does effect compensation, retirement, etc. Saying 'shut up and enjoy your free vacation' is a cop out statement in my opinion and doesn't sit well with me. I'm at the point personally where I want more money as opposed to time off. There absolutely should be hazard pay if it is deemed too dangerous for nonessential to come to work. Either it's too dangerous to come to work or its not. We are still facing mass retirements and this training backlog, whenever it does start again, is only going to make it worse.

I'd love to see training start again soon, and it should be a facility by facility decision on how to implement it. But there are obviously things that trainees now won't see that they previously did. It might be harder for me to give a recommendation based on current traffic. How can I teach feeding the guy working the final when everything is always combined? How can I teach speed control when there are barely sequences to sequence anymore? If anything, I think there needs to be more of an emphasis on lab training, where trainees can actually see these things. It should be more of a do or die regiment than it is at many places.

On the other hand, there are CPCs out there, including at my facility, who come to work completely paranoid everyday about getting the 'rona. You have to respect those wishes too.

The fact that the virus has been completely polarized and politicized has been really detrimental. I still believe if we weren't in an election cycle the overreaction to C19 wouldn't have been anywhere near as drastic. There would have been an emphasis on hand washing/hygiene and keeping old folks at home but everything would have stayed open. Now we've seemingly had a race between state/local/gov't officials to see who can me the most restrictive. We have made the cure far worse than the actual virus.
 
Its such a weird topic.

One one hand, I don't like that a ton of folks out there have had their careers seemingly put on hold indefinitely. I don't care what the CPC population says (me included), but that does effect compensation, retirement, etc. Saying 'shut up and enjoy your free vacation' is a cop out statement in my opinion and doesn't sit well with me. I'm at the point personally where I want more money as opposed to time off. There absolutely should be hazard pay if it is deemed too dangerous for nonessential to come to work. Either it's too dangerous to come to work or its not. We are still facing mass retirements and this training backlog, whenever it does start again, is only going to make it worse.

I'd love to see training start again soon, and it should be a facility by facility decision on how to implement it. But there are obviously things that trainees now won't see that they previously did. It might be harder for me to give a recommendation based on current traffic. How can I teach feeding the guy working the final when everything is always combined? How can I teach speed control when there are barely sequences to sequence anymore? If anything, I think there needs to be more of an emphasis on lab training, where trainees can actually see these things. It should be more of a do or die regiment than it is at many places.

On the other hand, there are CPCs out there, including at my facility, who come to work completely paranoid everyday about getting the 'rona. You have to respect those wishes too.

The fact that the virus has been completely polarized and politicized has been really detrimental. I still believe if we weren't in an election cycle the overreaction to C19 wouldn't have been anywhere near as drastic. There would have been an emphasis on hand washing/hygiene and keeping old folks at home but everything would have stayed open. Now we've seemingly had a race between state/local/gov't officials to see who can me the most restrictive. We have made the cure far worse than the actual virus.
If they are that paranoid there is sick leave.
Agree on all other points
 
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