Training hold

[mnsalty]

mnsalty
And by something bad what I’m saying if there is 1 controller when there should have been More and could have been more to handle the traffic and an accident occurs the public will not understand or care that the workforce wanted to protect itself rather than the flying public....make sense?

The public isn't going to know, understand, or care that it was a result of reduced staffing. The general public thinks we wave orange wands on the ramp. The vast majority of controllers at home couldn't affect opening positions that are combined anyways, but I guess that's not really what you're driving at.

I've re-read your posts like 10 times, and overall, I'm really struggling to understand the point you're even trying to make.

Either way, nobody is going to be torn apart any more than they already were, and there aren't going to be an PR disasters because a controller having an error or denying a practice approach isn't making national news. God forbid it's something worse, it'll make nat news, but ATC likely won't be the focus of it. NATCA will send out an email saying everything is peaches and rainbows, that we should privatize (err, correction, "need a consistent source of funding"), and thank everyone for "doing a good job" and "remind us to help protect our brothers and sisters" while "standing in solidarity." Sound like every NATCA email ever? The folks who previously loved NATCA will still love em, and the folks who already hated them will just grow more hate, and nothing changes.

 

[32andBelow]

I gotta tell you guys. This whole experience really makes me question the purpose of this little club we pay for. And I was all about it pre covid.

 

[ClearanceClarence]

I gotta tell you guys. This whole experience really makes me question the purpose of this little club we pay for. And I was all about it pre covid.

Hell even putting advocating aside, I just wish there was a reasonable attempt to communicate at this point. It’s been 3 months since trainees have been to work. The “we don’t know anything, but there are some people working on it” talking point just doesn’t cut it any more. Obviously there are discussions being had at some level. At least tell us WHAT is being discussed/considered. What ideas are being thrown around? What is the agency thinking they want to do and what is NATCA’s response? How realistic is it that we might be brought back on the 15th? Is there a reasonable chance we might not be brought back until August like some of the rumors floating around are saying?

Just tell us SOMETHING! Anything! I’m tired of having the most current/reliable updates about my job coming from the internet. I’ve literally learned about every training hold extension from here or Reddit before being told anything by NATCA or the agency.

 

[32andBelow]

Hell even putting advocating aside, I just wish there was a reasonable attempt to communicate at this point. It’s been 3 months since trainees have been to work. The “we don’t know anything, but there are some people working on it” talking point just doesn’t cut it any more. Obviously there are discussions being had at some level. At least tell us WHAT is being discussed/considered. What ideas are being thrown around? What is the agency thinking they want to do and what is NATCA’s response? How realistic is it that we might be brought back on the 15th? Is there a reasonable chance we might not be brought back until August like some of the rumors floating around are saying?

Just tell us SOMETHING! Anything! I’m tired of having the most current/reliable updates about my job coming from the internet. I’ve literally learned about every training hold extension from here or Reddit before being told anything by NATCA or the agency.

Yah they’re gonna have to take this L. It’s too much to just say nothing.

 

[arturoh3]

Hell even putting advocating aside, I just wish there was a reasonable attempt to communicate at this point. It’s been 3 months since trainees have been to work. The “we don’t know anything, but there are some people working on it” talking point just doesn’t cut it any more. Obviously there are discussions being had at some level. At least tell us WHAT is being discussed/considered. What ideas are being thrown around? What is the agency thinking they want to do and what is NATCA’s response? How realistic is it that we might be brought back on the 15th? Is there a reasonable chance we might not be brought back until August like some of the rumors floating around are saying?

Just tell us SOMETHING! Anything! I’m tired of having the most current/reliable updates about my job coming from the internet. I’ve literally learned about every training hold extension from here or Reddit before being told anything by NATCA or the agency.

I understand your frustration, I’m on the same boat as you, recent academy graduate with no certs ,still on AG pay wishing I go back soon and train. But honestly, if they’re not calling me to tell me it’s time to go back, what’s the point of begging for information? So all this “wishing they say something” at the end is useless. Unfortunately we’re at the bottom of the totem pole where we literally can’t contribute to anything actually related to working planes.

But maybe it’s just me enjoying this quarantine a little too much.

 

[UtahBeach]

I've signed up for classes on a couple digital media programs and resumed online class at the university I put on pause for ATC. Aviation no longer feels secure, and I think it's time to have a realistic fallback plan for when the whole thing goes tits up.

 

[Robert_Boucher]

I've signed up for classes on a couple digital media programs and resumed online class at the university I put on pause for ATC. Aviation no longer feels secure, and I think it's time to have a realistic fallback plan for when the whole thing goes tits up.

ATC is far more secure than the airline/corporate/ GA side of things. sure you can have a fall back plan, but things aren't so far gone that you can say this isn't a secure job.

 

[Soss]

I've signed up for classes on a couple digital media programs and resumed online class at the university I put on pause for ATC. Aviation no longer feels secure, and I think it's time to have a realistic fallback plan for when the whole thing goes tits up.

SIXTY-NINE hit 'em with the quote man

 

[Beyondatc]

I've signed up for classes on a couple digital media programs and resumed online class at the university I put on pause for ATC. Aviation no longer feels secure, and I think it's time to have a realistic fallback plan for when the whole thing goes tits up.

You think ATC is not secure?

 

[32andBelow]

I understand your frustration, I’m on the same boat as you, recent academy graduate with no certs ,still on AG pay wishing I go back soon and train. But honestly, if they’re not calling me to tell me it’s time to go back, what’s the point of begging for information? So all this “wishing they say something” at the end is useless. Unfortunately we’re at the bottom of the totem pole where we literally can’t contribute to anything actually related to working planes.

But maybe it’s just me enjoying this quarantine a little too much.

Why are they taking money out of our check if they don’t even tell us what they are doing for us.

 

[Robert_Boucher]

Why are they taking money out of our check if they don’t even tell us what they are doing for us.

Because you haven't sent them the paperwork to leave the union. Just a FYI but there are times when your Facrep doesn't have the latest or greatest because the RVP doesn't have info as well, or they aren't going to give out half baked info. I do know where y'all are coming from about the pay, but bringing trainees back just hasn't been the #1 priority.

 

[Mike Kilo]

Because you haven't sent them the paperwork to leave the union. Just a FYI but there are times when your Facrep doesn't have the latest or greatest because the RVP doesn't have info as well, or they aren't going to give out half baked info. I do know where y'all are coming from about the pay, but bringing trainees back just hasn't been the #1 priority.

This is true. We gotta get the Workers First Caravan going!

 

[mnsalty]

Just a FYI but there are times when your Facrep doesn't have the latest or greatest because the RVP doesn't have info as well, or they aren't going to give out half baked info.

Bull. I've listened in on numerous "town halls" in the last 2 months where RVPs and facreps are speculating up the wazoo and giving out tons of half-baked information, about stuff like use-or-lose and when trainees will return.

 

[Robert_Boucher]

Bull. I've listened in on numerous "town halls" in the last 2 months where RVPs and facreps are speculating up the wazoo and giving out tons of half-baked information, about stuff like use-or-lose and when trainees will return.

Well I can only speak of the info I've seen in my region. They asked about use or lose several times and the response was we don't have any info. Same thing with returning to normal schedules and as of yesterday was the first time I've heard them say they were looking at bringing trainees back but no new info.

 

[32andBelow]

Because you haven't sent them the paperwork to leave the union. Just a FYI but there are times when your Facrep doesn't have the latest or greatest because the RVP doesn't have info as well, or they aren't going to give out half baked info. I do know where y'all are coming from about the pay, but bringing trainees back just hasn't been the #1 priority.

It’s not acceptable now in month 3. National hasn’t even sent out 1 email directed towards trainees that have been in limbo. They haven’t even asked if anyone got the rona.

 

[ClearanceClarence]

I understand your frustration, I’m on the same boat as you, recent academy graduate with no certs ,still on AG pay wishing I go back soon and train. But honestly, if they’re not calling me to tell me it’s time to go back, what’s the point of begging for information? So all this “wishing they say something” at the end is useless. Unfortunately we’re at the bottom of the totem pole where we literally can’t contribute to anything actually related to working planes.

But maybe it’s just me enjoying this quarantine a little too much.

I understand what you’re saying, IMO given how unprecedented this whole situation is and considering that trainees are probably effected the most by it, there should at least be an attempt to communicate with us, or pretend they care. We may be at the “bottom of the totem pole” but we pay the same percentage of union dues everybody else does. Never in history has there been an across the board 100% halt on training like this. We’re in a career where we’re forced to retire at 56, and our salary is based on training and certifying. Every day this hold continues, it’s ultimately lost wages down the road for anyone who hasn’t gotten all of their raises yet. I don’t want to just sit at home twiddling my thumbs forever until somebody somewhere says “hey maybe we should bring the trainees back.” I want to do my job, and I would like to be informed of what the status of that job is.

 

[SIXTY-NINE]

SIXTY-NINE hit 'em with the quote man

Sadly I kind of agree, it's looking very grim for anyone who's not CPC right now.

 

[Robert_Boucher]

It’s not acceptable now in month 3. National hasn’t even sent out 1 email directed towards trainees that have been in limbo. They haven’t even asked if anyone got the rona.

I don't agree with everything NATCA does but, like it's been said before bringing trainees back just wasn't priority number #1. I personally think bringing trainees back should be determined at the local level but the higher-ups have to have some say in things. If it makes you feel any better they haven't asked CPCs if they have the Rona.

If y'all really feel you arent being represented in a fair manner take it up with your Facrep, or next January submit SF1188.

 

[mnsalty]

At this point - it’s unacceptable to just send emails or texts saying “we don’t know anything.” That was acceptable after a week, maybe a month. It’s not enough now, though.
But now - NATCA is sending out a slew of emails so clearly they have the time. FAA has put out guidance regarding phased openings - and the fact that hasn’t been communicated to trainees directly is disgraceful.

 

[arturoh3]

I understand what you’re saying, IMO given how unprecedented this whole situation is and considering that trainees are probably effected the most by it, there should at least be an attempt to communicate with us, or pretend they care. We may be at the “bottom of the totem pole” but we pay the same percentage of union dues everybody else does. Never in history has there been an across the board 100% halt on training like this. We’re in a career where we’re forced to retire at 56, and our salary is based on training and certifying. Every day this hold continues, it’s ultimately lost wages down the road for anyone who hasn’t gotten all of their raises yet. I don’t want to just sit at home twiddling my thumbs forever until somebody somewhere says “hey maybe we should bring the trainees back.” I want to do my job, and I would like to be informed of what the status of that job is.

I prefer them not telling me anything, than a bunch of constant “we don’t know yet, but we’re working on it”,”there’s been discussions but nothing is set in stone at the moment”,”we’re doing everything we can to bring you back safely” etc, etc, etc because I do think they don’t know shit and how to proceed, it all equals to nothing. My bottom of the totem pole comment meant there are things with higher priority that need to be addressed before us.
You guys keep complaining about paying dues, just leave the union if that’s what you wish, are they perfect? Shit, of course not, no union is. I was part of one for the last 8 years, and yes I complained about the same things, I never saw any representative at my job, no communication at all (20 times less than this) but at the end of the day, they’re and extra Hurdle between me and management, and they saved my job twice from stupid ass management that just wanted to get rid of people for speaking up.