Training hold

[ClearanceClarence]

So I’ll ask the question to the “iT’s AbOuT sAfEtY, i DoN’t WaNnA dIe!!” crowd that’s never really been answered..... What’s the end game here? If 4 months in to this when virtually every state has reopened, at what point are you going to feel like a trainee sitting in front of you isn’t going to be some massive threat to your health and safety? Are we just supposed to wait until there’s a vaccine? Well they say that won’t be until at least early 2021, and even then, COVID is unlikely to be eradicated. The experts say this very well could end up becoming a reoccurring/season event like the flu. So if it never goes away, would you propose we just never train again? Your life is in mortal danger if we do isn’t it?

The frustration for trainees lies in the fact that 4 months in, there is still zero guidance as to how we come out of this. There is no indication of what is being looked at to determine when it’s safe to start training again, much less what the plan to restart would look like. There is nothing other than being told to sit at home and wait, all while hoping that somebody in some budget meeting doesn’t bring up the word furlough.

 

[Kilo popa]

At the end of the day I think most of the trainees want to hear something from Natca national and there’s really no excuse they haven’t addressed it yet.

 

[Wholelotta]

So I’ll ask the question to the “iT’s AbOuT sAfEtY, i DoN’t WaNnA dIe!!” crowd that’s never really been answered..... What’s the end game here? If 4 months in to this when virtually every state has reopened, at what point are you going to feel like a trainee sitting in front of you isn’t going to be some massive threat to your health and safety? Are we just supposed to wait until there’s a vaccine? Well they say that won’t be until at least early 2021, and even then, COVID is unlikely to be eradicated. The experts say this very well could end up becoming a reoccurring/season event like the flu. So if it never goes away, would you propose we just never train again? Your life is in mortal danger if we do isn’t it?

The frustration for trainees lies in the fact that 4 months in, there is still zero guidance as to how we come out of this. There is no indication of what is being looked at to determine when it’s safe to start training again, much less what the plan to restart would look like. There is nothing other than being told to sit at home and wait, all while hoping that somebody in some budget meeting doesn’t bring up the word furlough.

I'm a new hire and furlough is really worrying me, I'll be completing a 2800 mile cross country move right before I report and to go without a paycheck for potentially months while the feds figure out their stuff is really a pain in the ass. If the training hold is still on Im really tempted to reach out to contract towers or pick up a job post move in the meanwhile just incase all this goes to shit for a while.

 

[wepa]

So I’ll ask the question to the “iT’s AbOuT sAfEtY, i DoN’t WaNnA dIe!!” crowd that’s never really been answered..... What’s the end game here? If 4 months in to this when virtually every state has reopened, at what point are you going to feel like a trainee sitting in front of you isn’t going to be some massive threat to your health and safety? Are we just supposed to wait until there’s a vaccine? Well they say that won’t be until at least early 2021, and even then, COVID is unlikely to be eradicated. The experts say this very well could end up becoming a reoccurring/season event like the flu. So if it never goes away, would you propose we just never train again? Your life is in mortal danger if we do isn’t it?

The frustration for trainees lies in the fact that 4 months in, there is still zero guidance as to how we come out of this. There is no indication of what is being looked at to determine when it’s safe to start training again, much less what the plan to restart would look like. There is nothing other than being told to sit at home and wait, all while hoping that somebody in some budget meeting doesn’t bring up the word furlough.

Frustrating for sure! But I know people who have lost ALL income and cant pay their mortgage and others who have literally died from it. COVID is a rareity and I consider myself lucky i'm still getting a paycheck while sitting at home. There is no indication from natca or management because they have zero clue how this will develop one month 6 months a year from now. Some states opening up doesnt mean our control rooms should be also. Ride it out brother/sister . Those on AG pay can do some side hustles if they are straped for cash.

 

[ClearanceClarence]

At the end of the day I think most of the trainees want to hear something from Natca national and there’s really no excuse they haven’t addressed it yet.

The decisions (or lack thereof) are being made at the national level. Even the most helpful facrep or even an RVP can’t really do anything to help, or even share information when nothing is coming from the top. The ONLY information on training that’s come from national is one or two sentences in the monthly newsletter that says “the training hold has been extended.” There has been zero information on what is being discussed or what they are advocating for on the national level. It makes absolutely no sense why they can’t send out even a single email dedicated to the training situation.

 

[CaptainObvious]

Neither the FAA or NATCA is responsible for enforcing social distancing outside of work. The FAA is responsible for ensuring a safe work environment. NATCA is responsible for negotiating safe work conditions. Any discussion about what controllers do on their breaks or off duty is irrelevant to the discussion about working conditions. Increasing exposure increases risk. That is where the focus has been and will likely continue to be. Yes, that extends checkout times. The FAA is in a much better staffing situation than it was a few years ago. All you need to do is look at the staffing worksheets for that to be obvious. Further, traffic likely won't be back to pre 2020 levels for a few years. Without a staffing crunch, the FAA and NATCA likely don't see any need to introduce unnecessary risk in order to decrease training time. I'm not saying it doesn't suck for current trainees. It certainly does, but those in charge are looking at a larger picture than the timeline to certify trainees.

Ok if they can control working conditions, then they can mandate masks and social distancing. They could provide greater and more regular cleaning and plexiglass between sectors. If every retail store can install plexiglass at registers why can’t the facilities. If it’s about working conditions, D side only wouldn’t be coming back.

 

[32andBelow]

Ok if they can control working conditions, then they can mandate masks and social distancing. They could provide greater and more regular cleaning and plexiglass between sectors. If every retail store can install plexiglass at registers why can’t the facilities. If it’s about working conditions, D side only wouldn’t be coming back.

Yah it would make better social distancing to get ride if 5 and 5 and get more sectors open since they are way further apart than a d side

 

[Robert_Boucher]

I'm a new hire and furlough is really worrying me, I'll be completing a 2800 mile cross country move right before I report and to go without a paycheck for potentially months while the feds figure out their stuff is really a pain in the ass. If the training hold is still on Im really tempted to reach out to contract towers or pick up a job post move in the meanwhile just incase all this goes to shit for a while.

Dont let those talking of furlough scare you too much, 99% of what they are saying is based off their opinions of what they think could happen. I dont think ive heard of a current employee being allowed to work as a contract controller, I would imagine you would have to resign your FAA job to go that route.

 

[Wholelotta]

Dont let those talking of furlough scare you too much, 99% of what they are saying is based off their opinions of what they think could happen. I dont think ive heard of a current employee being allowed to work as a contract controller, I would imagine you would have to resign your FAA job to go that route.

My concern is just paying the bill, i remember when all yall had to go to work without pay for a couple of months(i know you got payed back eventually) , just want to make sure i can put food on the table

 

[SIXTY-NINE]

Dont let those talking of furlough scare you too much, 99% of what they are saying is based off their opinions of what they think could happen. I dont think ive heard of a current employee being allowed to work as a contract controller, I would imagine you would have to resign your FAA job to go that route.

From seeing how people talk about what is essentially paid vacation (but halted training) right now, I can't imagine how insane this forum must have been when there was an actual furlough last year.

Edit: I am wrong, my mistake boys!

 

[Maintainvfr]

From seeing how people talk about what is essentially paid vacation (but halted training) right now, I can't imagine how insane this forum must have been when there was an actual furlough last year.

Controllers were not furloughed last year.

 

[32andBelow]

From seeing how people talk about what is essentially paid vacation (but halted training) right now, I can't imagine how insane this forum must have been when there was an actual furlough last year.

There wasn’t a furlough. We kept working (and training)

 

[ClearanceClarence]

Dont let those talking of furlough scare you too much, 99% of what they are saying is based off their opinions of what they think could happen. I dont think ive heard of a current employee being allowed to work as a contract controller, I would imagine you would have to resign your FAA job to go that route.

It was this message from Paul 2 months ago that started the concern with furloughs. “We want to keep as much normalcy as possible in people getting their paychecks” is pretty terrifying when you’ve been deemed “non-essential” for months.

 

[Robert_Boucher]

It was this message from Paul 2 months ago that started the concern with furloughs. “We want to keep as much normalcy as possible in people getting their paychecks” is pretty terrifying when you’ve been deemed “non-essential” for months.
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Still doesn't change the fact that y'all are speculating that there may be a furlough, outside of the Trust fund none of what y'all are saying has any foundation to it. Also if the trust fund does dry up, I would think that since the administration has set the precedent to just reallocate funding from other departments the gov would consider that as an option.

My concern is just paying the bill, i remember when all yall had to go to work without pay for a couple of months(i know you got payed back eventually) , just want to make sure i can put food on the table

I understand that but as far as I know there have been no talks of furlough between NATCA and the FAA so you will still be getting paid I assume more than AG pay. If anything get a side gig doing door dash or something to that effect.

 

[JNev]

What would happen if none of the trainers would train the trainees? If they decided to take sick leave instead of training?

 

[Wholelotta]

What would happen if none of the trainers would train the trainees? If they decided to take sick leave instead of training?

I think like with the last "sick out" during the "not a furlough" the goverment would have to make a choice, give in to the opinion of some or hire more people who are willing to train.

 

[kombucha23]

What would happen if none of the trainers would train the trainees? If they decided to take sick leave instead of training?

I was told we can’t refuse to train because it’s part of our job responsibilities, but I’d like to see how many ATSAPs start rolling in for people who were uncomfortable training during all this and had a deal because they couldn’t effectively train and maintain social distancing standards. I know my facility would pushback against management forcing us to train, but our traffic is better than it was last year this time, so most of us are willing to train and get developmentals going.

You’d probably just get hit with sick leave abuse if you did it in some coordinated manner.

 

[Stinger]

I was told we can’t refuse to train because it’s part of our job responsibilities, but I’d like to see how many ATSAPs start rolling in for people who were uncomfortable training during all this and had a deal because they couldn’t effectively train and maintain social distancing standards. I know my facility would pushback against management forcing us to train, but our traffic is better than it was last year this time, so most of us are willing to train and get developmentals going.

You’d probably just get hit with sick leave abuse if you did it in some coordinated manner.

All of this is correct.

 

[PushingTin]

Anyone taking the position that training will endanger them and therefore they can't/won't, should be wearing masks at work currently.... right? Whether they are on 10/5, 5/5, or normal schedule, if you are working in close quarters to others all unmasked, then i think it's fair to question your motives in saying we cant train.

I havent heard of 1 facility where everyone is wearing masks. The entire situation is a clusterfuck full of contradictions and hypocrisy. I know it's become an eye roller, but I honestly think the Agency has not mandated masks, because of the insanely obvious fact that we have a CBA that talks about hazard pay, and that would be the straw that breaks the hazard pay $$$ camel's back. Any deniability would be gone. Everything is always about money. None of this shit is about anyone's health. That's polyana bullshit happy talk. Money and politics.

Also, no way we can have training without all of the "high risk " ppl getting their asses back to work first. Until then how can it be safe to train? Theyll need a liver detox and have to be retrained first! I'm looking at YOU GulfCharlie

 

[Dontbotherme]

Wait until you see those ATM bonuses this year...