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SIXTY-NINE
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Correction: Were they "not paid" but continued to work?
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PushingTin
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So then you are saying work is currently unsafe, but would be made more unsafe w trainees? A nuanced argument about relative degree of risk? Or just trying to troll more like.
Or maybe you are the only bubble boy controller who works in such a slow facility you dont have to get within distance of another human all shift.
Mike Kilo
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Correct. It wasn’t a huge deal as everyone made it. There were a lot of options for $$ assistance during the time. No interest short term loans etc. Shit, one of my level eleven supervisors wife was on the news at a local food drive grabbing shit up from real people in need. Dude probably makes 190k plus a year with differentials.
I'd like to reiterate this question. Seems like it was skipped past.
Are we supposed to be afraid of the virus, or the fact that we might not have a hospital bed? The virus scares me enough to keep my 6 feet to the best of my ability and wear a cloth mask (which even experts agree is just "better than nothing"). But is it going to stop me from living life for the next however many months/years? No.
I'll also remphasize an earlier statement: WHO says asymptomatic transmission is rare. But we apparently have 20-30 million cases in the states. So who is going around coughing on everything or heading to the bars with a fever? Wouldn't we notice these people? Wouldn't we stone them?
I'm saying that the risk is lower when there are only 3-4 people in an area sitting at scopes that are more than one scope length apart. If you want to add trainees that now have to sit side by side to someone then you are increasing the risk.
But I get that your response to people who want to limit exposure is to give them hazard pay and then you wonder why everyone thinks you're a complete moron. By the way, you forgot to add your signature picture at the end followed by a hashtag. I'm kind of disappointed.
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PushingTin
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Brother! Lol hard no. Since I'm demonstrably not a "very stupid person" nor affected by intellectual disabilities, I've never wondered this.
Agree. This has been obvious from the start. "Flatten the curve" was their religious chant...somewhere along the way an apostate changed it to "there is still virus!!!! Shut down all society forever". This will get me called names by low level thinkers like spider , but I think our real answer I involves politics/election year. Literally everything is political and weaponized by either side. Like o said, our health is really the least concern. Way bigger forces at play. My hypocrisy starts and stops w hazard pay! I want more beer money
I am not an advocate of shutting everything down. I believe there is a wide gap between doing nothing and shutting everything down. There are things you can do that limit your exposure...such as wearing a mask if you're going to have to sit next to someone indoors. But again, all you care about is the hazard pay because if they pay you hazard pay then your level of exposure gets magically reduced. That's why it's #TheBestJobintheWorld! Risk ceases to exist as long as you get hazard pay!
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Soss
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We just need to accept the fact that at some point in time we are all gonna get this virus and a miniscule amount of us will die. And the more we share the virus the better chance it has at becoming as harmless as the common cold. We keep half-assing everything and that's what's buttfucking us.
If it wasn't an election cycle none of this hysteria would have happened. See the H1N1 Flu from a few years back. All we would have would be an emphasis on washing hands/hygiene, etc and being told to stay at home if you're sick. Now that it is clear that many more people are asymptomatic carriers, the hospitalization rates and mortality rates are much lower than what is being advertised. But yet we have perfectly healthy people quarantining for no reason.
Its basically a flu strain which is mildly worse than influenza (which elderly people and those who have comorbidities, or are generally unhealthy die from all the time). We've made it so the cure has been worse than the virus. There was zero need to destroy the economy for this.
Its basically a flu strain which is mildly worse than influenza (which elderly people and those who have comorbidities, or are generally unhealthy die from all the time). We've made it so the cure has been worse than the virus. There was zero need to destroy the economy for this.
Why don't you reach out to Paul or Trish yourself and ask whats going on?
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PushingTin
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lol you are so simple in your analysis. not everything is black and white spider. for the very 5th time.... it is the norm to be compensated commensurate w the risk. Havent you ever worked OT and been totally fucking down the shitter with bare bone staffing getting your ass handed to you... but psychologically thought.... "well, im on OT I guess im earning my money" ? I have. I think that is normal human behavior. Yes, I am a hypocrite. If I am compensated, I am more willing to accept the risk. Have you nev er turned toa friend and said "How much would it take for you to __________ ?" and they say " a million dolalrs!" and both laugh? like normal humans who aren't message board robots? I am drinking hard in your honor today tho. you are my #1 nemesis it seems who I haven't blocked yet. keep the hits coming
Oh, no! You're going to block me? Holy shit! What am I going to do now?!?!
Do you really think anyone gives a shit if you block them? That is one hell of an ego you have.
32andBelow
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Lmao what. Did H1N1 kill 125k people in 4 months
Maintainvfr
Forum Sage
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You would have to be an absolute fucking idiot to listen to a controllers opinions on one virus vs another and think yeah this guys right, the scientists and medical professionals are wrong
But yeah, I too hate when the entire world fakes a pandemic to meddle in our elections
Peter Gibbons
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The fact that we are even having a discussion about this tells me we should get hazard pay. And PushingTin isn't out of line in saying a monetary incentive makes people more willing to do things and take risks. I don't come to work because I enjoy it, I come because casue they pay me. We shouod be getting it now, and we sure as shit should be getting it if a job requirement is sitting 2 feet from someone and talking with them, as is the case with training.
If natca national isn't actively working on getting hazard pay for us as clearly outlined in the CBA, thats a failure on their part. If they are that's gonna be a sweet sweet back pay check.
That said, with cases spiking around the nation, I don't think it's a great idea to just say fuck it bring everyone back in if it's not necessary. If things were trending down or flat still, you couldn't make the argument anymore, but that's not the case in about half the country. A phased plan based on individual state/local area numbers is the best option, I don't see why we aren't doing that.
If natca national isn't actively working on getting hazard pay for us as clearly outlined in the CBA, thats a failure on their part. If they are that's gonna be a sweet sweet back pay check.
That said, with cases spiking around the nation, I don't think it's a great idea to just say fuck it bring everyone back in if it's not necessary. If things were trending down or flat still, you couldn't make the argument anymore, but that's not the case in about half the country. A phased plan based on individual state/local area numbers is the best option, I don't see why we aren't doing that.
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PushingTin
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Its a pretty morbid thing to say, but we need to see what has happened w the mortality rate in 2-3 weeks. Some think its mostly* young people in this new southern wave, and/or that the virus itself has naturally become less lethal through its own evolution. Also that treatments have improved (IE, Remdesivir, & seems like ventilators are almost a death sentence). If we see similar death tolls to what we had in April/May, we are fucked and in uncharted waters and what happens is anyones guess. politics does play a huge role in this all the way around. Every state has taken a different approach to "reopening.". I am very empathetic to to the plight of trainees who are stuck in limbo and payscale.... but I dont think training is coming back anytime soon. By soon i mean....until Fall? It depends on the virus, and no one knows ow its going to play out. Its a hell of a time to be alive, we are living through a real life dystopian nightmare. Its playing out in slow motion but no one knows how this story ends. Furloughs are just as likely as getting back to normal imo.
Myself and FightingIrish2012 i think were the main inventors and propagators of the #BestJobinTheWorld hashtag in an ironic trolly hyperbolic kind of way. There is a shitload of low hanging fruit to criticize w both NATCA and the agency (and its fun to do so), but in these times this truly IS one of the best jobs in the world. No one who isnt advancing/training wants to hear it but it is. When Uncle Sam runs out of govt cheese we will hav e way bigger problems than when training is restarting.
So just to clarify the argument...if controllers refuse to train when devs are recalled because of their fears of contracting the virus, doesn’t that just prove 32andBelow right in that the Union should have a say over what controllers do on EA days? If CPCs are going to be SO worried about getting the virus that they’ll call off in order to reduce exposure to trainees, they should also be forced to self quarantine when they’re not at work.
The move to not have trainees/non essentials in the building isn’t being made from just a “safety” standpoint but also from a traffic standpoint. Yes you have an ongoing pandemic. But as a result of that pandemic you have traffic levels that are at 50 percent or lower than what they normally are. As long as both of those things stay present, training and non essentials will remain outside the building. There is no point to introduce risk/put non essentials at risk, to train on minimal traffic and get nothing out of it. Once the risk from the pandemic subsides through either a cure/vaccine or simply going away OR traffic rises to a point that makes training worth it then you’ll get the call. Also you want a plan? It’s hard to have a plan that can be articulated to everyone when they are literally going week by week watching the pandemic unfold and monitoring traffic counts. The plan would literally change weekly. I know it’s not what you want to hear but it is what it is.
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Anyone taking the position that training will endanger them and therefore they can't/won't, should be wearing masks at work currently.... right? Whether they are on 10/5, 5/5, or normal schedule, if you are working in close quarters to others all unmasked, then i think it's fair to question your motives in saying we cant train.
I havent heard of 1 facility where everyone is wearing masks. The entire situation is a clusterfuck full of contradictions and hypocrisy. I know it's become an eye roller, but I honestly think the Agency has not mandated masks, because of the insanely obvious fact that we have a CBA that talks about hazard pay, and that would be the straw that breaks the hazard pay $$$ camel's back. Any deniability would be gone. Everything is always about money. None of this shit is about anyone's health. That's polyana bullshit happy talk. Money and politics.
Also, no way we can have training without all of the "high risk " ppl getting their asses back to work first. Until then how can it be safe to train? Theyll need a liver detox and have to be retrained first! I'm looking at YOU GulfCharlie
I received the call as well about coming in for currency. My thought process is with cases increasing, our facility just having one pop positive last week, and the fact masks are not mandated yet all contributed to me saying "No, I will go wait until I am ordered to return, even if it carries me beyond the 120 day mark."
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