What do you want to see in the next contract and beyond?

[32andBelow]

I blame the NTI. Certifying people on slow traffic and burning out OJTIs just so the FAA can be like “hey look! We’re fixing the staffing problem!”

No the NTI is good. They just need to follow it up with adjusting the hour ranges to go with it. Before NTI some crews/areas would just not train people a lot of days.

 

[CaptainObvious]

No the NTI is good. They just need to follow it up with adjusting the hour ranges to go with it. Before NTI some crews/areas would just not train people a lot of days.

As an OJTI, burnout is real. It’s much more difficult to sit for 4-5 hours a day including slow periods than getting 1-2 busier sessions

 

[Spoony90]

No the NTI is good. They just need to follow it up with adjusting the hour ranges to go with it. Before NTI some crews/areas would just not train people a lot of days.

It’s good at a core 30 facility. But for everyone else, it’s garbage. Running up hours to talk to 5 planes a day then certifying them cause “we are out of hours and nothing we can do. Just certify them on the traffic they see”
May as well get a simulator check out

 

[CaptainObvious]

It’s good at a core 30 facility. But for everyone else, it’s garbage. Running up hours to talk to 5 planes a day then certifying them cause “we are out of hours and nothing we can do. Just certify them on the traffic they see”
May as well get a simulator check out

A busy sim session, while often unrealistic might even be better than forced to sit during off periods, forced by the supe to come up with “scenarios”

 

[Spoony90]

A busy sim session, while often unrealistic might even be better than forced to sit during off periods, forced by the supe to come up with “scenarios”

Yup. That’s way better than talking to one plane an hour. But you know… that means the supes would have to work and you know how lazy they are

 

[32andBelow]

As an OJTI, burnout is real. It’s much more difficult to sit for 4-5 hours a day including slow periods than getting 1-2 busier sessions

Isn’t the NTI only 3.5 hours? It can just be 2 sessions if you want.

It’s good at a core 30 facility. But for everyone else, it’s garbage. Running up hours to talk to 5 planes a day then certifying them cause “we are out of hours and nothing we can do. Just certify them on the traffic they see”
May as well get a simulator check out

it didn’t make much sense when they didn’t extend the total number of hours you got like instead of 60-90 making it 60-120 to account for training more. I think the hours are goofy anyways but that’s a different thing.

 

[Move78]

Yup. That’s way better than talking to one plane an hour. But you know… that means the supes would have to work and you know how lazy they are

A plane an hour? Thought y’all wanted more money?

 

[Sassyquatch]

Isn’t the NTI only 3.5 hours? It can just be 2 sessions if you want.

There were days I was regularly hitting 6 hours of training and weeks where I got 18 hours. The burnout was so real from both the trainee and trainer sides & most of the time, I was forced to train on a slow Sunday with no traffic because my supervisor said there was no guarantee that I would hit 12 hours of training by the end of the week. Obviously was a bs argument since I proved I was hitting 18 hrs/week but they didn't care. Management at my facility was/is on a huge power trip tho when I was training and hitting 12 wasn't good enough for them & wanted everyone to train for at least 15 hours a week.

The argument to train when there's no traffic is because once you're CPC you'll be working regular days during slower periods. But it was infuriating getting close to the end of my hours and my supe not wanting to watch me because he still wanted me to see busy traffic & I still had to prove I can work when traffic builds up. THEN telling me that I didnt need simulator training because it wasn't realistic.

I understand why the NTI is there and you can't just not train if you're at a seasonal facility where traffic slows down for months at a time. But there has to be a better way to do this

 

[32andBelow]

There were days I was regularly hitting 6 hours of training and weeks where I got 18 hours. The burnout was so real from both the trainee and trainer sides & most of the time, I was forced to train on a slow Sunday with no traffic because my supervisor said there was no guarantee that I would hit 12 hours of training by the end of the week. Obviously was a bs argument since I proved I was hitting 18 hrs/week but they didn't care. Management at my facility was/is on a huge power trip tho when I was training and hitting 12 wasn't good enough for them & wanted everyone to train for at least 15 hours a week.

The argument to train when there's no traffic is because once you're CPC you'll be working regular days during slower periods. But it was infuriating getting close to the end of my hours and my supe not wanting to watch me because he still wanted me to see busy traffic & I still had to prove I can work when traffic builds up. THEN telling me that I didnt need simulator training because it wasn't realistic.

I understand why the NTI is there and you can't just not train if you're at a seasonal facility where traffic slows down for months at a time. But there has to be a better way to do this

Well your facility not understanding math is a different problem. The 12 hours a week is really not a big deal and I’m glad they are forcing people to try to hit that. How you get 6 hours a day out of 12 a week is weird.

 

[Sassyquatch]

Well your facility not understanding math is a different problem. The 12 hours a week is really not a big deal and I’m glad they are forcing people to try to hit that. How you get 6 hours a day out of 12 a week is weird.

Idk, I guess what I'm trying to say is that facilities take the NTI and blow it way out of proportion but maybe that's just an issue here. The goal of it is to force facilities to train who otherwise don't make an effort. But facilities who have never had an issue with training, I think it could waste a bunch of time. Training someone on slow days, not for the quality of training, but to reach a specific number of hours.

But I'm also seeing standards drop & checkouts getting quicker and I don't think thats necessarily a good thing either.

 

[Mike Kilo]

Idk, I guess what I'm trying to say is that facilities take the NTI and blow it way out of proportion but maybe that's just an issue here. The goal of it is to force facilities to train who otherwise don't make an effort. But facilities who have never had an issue with training, I think it could waste a bunch of time. Training someone on slow days, not for the quality of training, but to reach a specific number of hours.

But I'm also seeing standards drop & checkouts getting quicker and I don't think thats necessarily a good thing either.

I had an OM defend it saying people need to train to work slow traffic too lol.

 

[Raise when?]

All I care about is pay. I’d wear a suit to get paid properly

 

[32andBelow]

Idk, I guess what I'm trying to say is that facilities take the NTI and blow it way out of proportion but maybe that's just an issue here. The goal of it is to force facilities to train who otherwise don't make an effort. But facilities who have never had an issue with training, I think it could waste a bunch of time. Training someone on slow days, not for the quality of training, but to reach a specific number of hours.

But I'm also seeing standards drop & checkouts getting quicker and I don't think thats necessarily a good thing either.

I think you should just train every day and it’ll all work out

 

[Bandit117]

I think you should just train every day and it’ll all work out

It really depends on your facility. Midwestern facilities often do half or less of their summer numbers in the winter. GFK, a popping 9 tower does like 34k ops a month in the fall and spring, but only like 8k a month in winter. Training on 1/3 traffic or less isn’t valuable training. A few sessions a week to stay fresh is something, burning hours a day is a different story.

The nti has a code for that, no traffic, but management is falling over themselves in spite of the impediment, to reach an arbitrary goal, totally warping the intent of impediments in the first place

 

[32andBelow]

It really depends on your facility. Midwestern facilities often do half or less of their summer numbers in the winter. GFK, a popping 9 tower does like 34k ops a month in the fall and spring, but only like 8k a month in winter. Training on 1/3 traffic or less isn’t valuable training. A few sessions a week to stay fresh is something, burning hours a day is a different story.

The nti has a code for that, no traffic, but management is falling over themselves in spite of the impediment, to reach an arbitrary goal, totally warping the intent of impediments in the first place

They just shouldn’t get so wrapped up in this arbitrary hours. You never know what you’re gonna see even if it’s slow.

 

[Mike Kilo]

It really depends on your facility. Midwestern facilities often do half or less of their summer numbers in the winter. GFK, a popping 9 tower does like 34k ops a month in the fall and spring, but only like 8k a month in winter. Training on 1/3 traffic or less isn’t valuable training. A few sessions a week to stay fresh is something, burning hours a day is a different story.

The nti has a code for that, no traffic, but management is falling over themselves in spite of the impediment, to reach an arbitrary goal, totally warping the intent of impediments in the first place

They gotta lock in those bonuses!

 

[jorgeluis161]

It really depends on your facility. Midwestern facilities often do half or less of their summer numbers in the winter. GFK, a popping 9 tower does like 34k ops a month in the fall and spring, but only like 8k a month in winter. Training on 1/3 traffic or less isn’t valuable training. A few sessions a week to stay fresh is something, burning hours a day is a different story.

The nti has a code for that, no traffic, but management is falling over themselves in spite of the impediment, to reach an arbitrary goal, totally warping the intent of impediments in the first place

And NATCA and mostly smaller facreps refuse to even fight management on it...

 

[pedaNTIc]

The sr22 blew through the final so badly that he also blew through the parallel final. Atrocious pilot error.

So, standard Cirrus stuff rt?

 

[Soul_Controller]

And NATCA and mostly smaller facreps refuse to even fight management on it...

The problem is that the fight doesn't make sense. Management doesn't need the NTI to assign training (and if your argument is that you are training too much then you just sound lazy). If people are unfairly getting training terminated then that's what the TRBs are for. If you gatekeepers think people are getting checked out too soon, then reevaluate your hours.

 

[jorgeluis161]

The problem is that the fight doesn't make sense. Management doesn't need the NTI to assign training (and if your argument is that you are training too much then you just sound lazy). If people are unfairly getting training terminated then that's what the TRBs are for. If you gatekeepers think people are getting checked out too soon, then reevaluate your hours.

The issue isn't that it is too much training. It's the lack of quality of training. And when you get shit training you get shit controllers and those who should have never checked out (see Austin as an example).