Ncept is solid program

[wrench978]

Imagine the money saved in sending people to the academy if you assigned facilities prior to starting vs facility assignment at the end of training and having people turn it down. I’m not sure what the attrition rate is for people who go through the academy and ultimately decline but if it’s higher than zero, this would immediately be more effective.

It’s not even people who decline at selection day… we have had a bunch of people come to ZSU with the sole intent of hardshipping out as soon as they can get paperwork in. I’m sure other facilites face the same issues…

 

[ajmezz]

Just run both pipelines. Local bids and a bid like they do now to fill in the gaps. You apply to the "anywhere" bid and get sent to the west coast when you were hoping to stay on the east coast, you don't have much of a leg to stand on when it comes to bitching about it.

 

[RomeoTangoRT]

Just run both pipelines. Local bids and a bid like they do now to fill in the gaps. You apply to the "anywhere" bid and get sent to the west coast when you were hoping to stay on the east coast, you don't have much of a leg to stand on when it comes to bitching about it.

I mean this respectfully but this is a shit argument. I’ll die on this hill. You apply to “anywhere” bid because they force you to. You literally don’t have the option to not select “anywhere.” You have people who get out of the military at 23 with a CTO and bid/decline for the next 12 years until they get a preferred location.

 

[CoffeeIV]

I mean this respectfully but this is a shit argument. I’ll die on this hill. You apply to “anywhere” bid because they force you to. You literally don’t have the option to not select “anywhere.” You have people who get out of the military at 23 with a CTO and bid/decline for the next 12 years until they get a preferred location.

That's why you would apply to the local bid he's proposing. If you want to just get into the agency and have a job, you take anywhere. You could also apply directly to a facility and potentially get picked up.

Or go back to how it was like 15-20 years ago where I believe you selected a state or two that you wanted to work at. Anything seems better than what's currently happening.

 

[32andBelow]

If the contract people can staff bethel and king salmon for less money I think the FAA can figure it out

 

[RomeoTangoRT]

That's why you would apply to the local bid he's proposing. If you want to just get into the agency and have a job, you take anywhere. You could also apply directly to a facility and potentially get picked up.

Or go back to how it was like 15-20 years ago where I believe you selected a state or two that you wanted to work at. Anything seems better than what's currently happening.

I 100% support local bidding. This also helps legacy controllers who got sent there against their will by allowing them to transfer out. Local bidding should have similar stipulations to the retired military bids we see occasionally. You applied for a specific facility (in the retired military bids it’s a list of potential facilities) therefore you’re bound by contract to remain at that facility indefinitely or for a probationary period. Whether that’s 3, 5, 10 years, whatever. That sort of eliminates the concern of people bidding local bids just to put in a transfer once they check out. Idk, there’re options that aren’t being explored that have been used in parallel situations.

 

[32andBelow]

I 100% support local bidding. This also helps legacy controllers who got sent there against their will by allowing them to transfer out. Local bidding should have similar stipulations to the retired military bids we see occasionally. You applied for a specific facility (in the retired military bids it’s a list of potential facilities) therefore you’re bound by contract to remain at that facility indefinitely or for a probationary period. Whether that’s 3, 5, 10 years, whatever. That sort of eliminates the concern of people bidding local bids just to put in a transfer once they check out. Idk, there’re options that aren’t being explored that have been used in parallel situations.

Then you can actually give performance based bonuses to ATMs for staffing and hiring. And you could offer a move money and relocation program that actually is functional to help fill in the gaps

 

[RomeoTangoRT]

If the contract people can staff bethel and king salmon for less money I think the FAA can figure it out

What’s actually funny about this is that they can’t. When I checked into my first contract facility out of the military, there wasn’t a single controller assigned to my tower. You had an ATM and three response team controllers who manned the facility to keep it open. Myself and three other prior military checked in, got qualified, and all left within six months either for the FAA or other contract gigs.

Then you can actually give performance based bonuses to ATMs for staffing and hiring. And you could offer a move money and relocation program that actually is functional to help fill in the gaps

It’s the classic “what can we do to boost office morale?”

“PAY US MORE MONEY!!”

“Okay pizza party on Friday!” 😒

You could eliminate off the street bids altogether. Force local bids. Post facility specific openings on USA jobs like they do supe bids and hire based on priority.

Best qualified - agency controllers
Well qualified - prior experience
Qualified - off street no experience

Agency controllers work it out interagency. Prior experience get a direct to facility start date. Off street get classed up and sent to the academy. In doing so, it also eliminates NCEPT and you can bid new facilities at any time. You still have your staffing/release-gain policies for inner agency but it’s an ongoing, fluid system. You’d obviously have some attrition from less desirable facilities with people bidding up but I think overall it would be a net gain. Even the least desirable locales still receive applicants.

 

[32andBelow]

You could eliminate off the street bids altogether. Force local bids. Post facility specific openings on USA jobs like they do supe bids and hire based on priority.

Best qualified - agency controllers
Well qualified - prior experience
Qualified - off street no experience

Agency controllers work it out interagency. Prior experience get a direct to facility start date. Off street get classed up and sent to the academy. In doing so, it also eliminates NCEPT and you can bid new facilities at any time. You still have your staffing/release-gain policies for inner agency but it’s an ongoing, fluid system. You’d obviously have some attrition from less desirable facilities with people bidding up but I think overall it would be a net gain. Even the least desirable locales still receive applicants.

I don’t even think they should have release policy. My wife is a teacher and they don’t give a shit if everyone leaves 1 school. If positions are open they are available to be bid. Besides that maybe you have to wait 6 months or so.

If they offered some tdy contracts to fill in some gaps I think sompeople would be all over it

 

[ajmezz]

I mean this respectfully but this is a shit argument. I’ll die on this hill. You apply to “anywhere” bid because they force you to. You literally don’t have the option to not select “anywhere.” You have people who get out of the military at 23 with a CTO and bid/decline for the next 12 years until they get a preferred location.

I think CoffeeIV cleared up what I meant on the two pipelines comment.

People turning down places they don’t like/want happens now. Hell, that happens internally with ncept, so it’s nothing really new. I don’t think you ever completely stop that, but with local bids, you could potentially alleviate some of that attrition. Really it only hurts the person applying bc they’re just wasting their own time with that mindset and giving themselves less time to put towards their retirement.

 

[32andBelow]

I think CoffeeIV cleared up what I meant on the two pipelines comment.

People turning down places they don’t like/want happens now. Hell, that happens internally with ncept, so it’s nothing really new. I don’t think you ever completely stop that, but with local bids, you could potentially alleviate some of that attrition. Really it only hurts the person applying bc they’re just wasting their own time with that mindset and giving themselves less time to put towards their retirement.

I’ve personally talked to people interested in this job then they totally lose interest when you Inform them they’d have to move. In the age of work from home, a policy of work in Guam if we want isn’t going to fly

 

[Mike_Lima]

I’ve personally talked to people interested in this job then they totally lose interest when you Inform them they’d have to move. In the age of work from home, a policy of work in Guam if we want isn’t going to fly

Their is definitely a huge population of people who would want to do this job, but let’s be real expecting them to pay out of pocket for a cross country move, especially with the market the way it is, is asking a lot. Plenty will definitely move, including myself. Most military folks who plan it correctly will just have the military move them on their dime.
But those that reapply and have to move themselves across the damn country is a good reason why a lot will turn down the facility offered (plus if it’s not a desirable place for the applicant). Like you said so many work from home jobs are popping up that pay extremely well.
Having something like RT brought up with local hiring authorities would be a pretty sweet situation, almost how the DoD lists facilities, so you know exactly where you are going when you apply.

 

[Ad1234]

Then you can actually give performance based bonuses to ATMs for staffing and hiring. And you could offer a move money and relocation program that actually is functional to help fill in the gaps

ATMs had responsibility for staffing in years past and that’s why we got ncept. They were allowed to release knowing they might not get their list of people assigned to their facility pre academy.


Asking the group, how do you then staff a facility when you can’t get local hires, and the ones you do everyone leaves via whatever release policy exists? When you listed states hardly anyone applied to quite a few states. They couldn’t staff facilities. You’ll see a drastic decrease in applicants on the apply anywhere only ever gets like 20-30 locations.

 

[32andBelow]

ATMs had responsibility for staffing in years past and that’s why we got ncept. They were allowed to release knowing they might not get their list of people assigned to their facility pre academy.


Asking the group, how do you then staff a facility when you can’t get local hires, and the ones you do everyone leaves via whatever release policy exists? When you listed states hardly anyone applied to quite a few states. They couldn’t staff facilities. You’ll see a drastic decrease in applicants on the apply anywhere only ever gets like 20-30 locations.

I’m talking about like atms actually working. And going to like hiring fairs and the local community college and letting people know about the job.

 

[Ad1234]

I’m talking about like atms actually working. And going to like hiring fairs and the local community college and letting people know about the job.

Good luck getting atms

 

[32andBelow]

They found a group that won’t yell at them

 

[Robert_Boucher]

You beat me to it. Lol

 

[FredSmoot]

In the center environment, NCEPT should be based on the staffing of individual areas as opposed to the staffing of the whole building. If Area 1 is well staffed, the people trying to leave shouldn’t be held hostage because Areas 3,6 &7 are understaffed.

 

[Ad1234]

In the center environment, NCEPT should be based on the staffing of individual areas as opposed to the staffing of the whole building. If Area 1 is well staffed, the people trying to leave shouldn’t be held hostage because Areas 3,6 &7 are understaffed.

As soon as you do that you’ll also be paid that way. You sure that’s wise?

 

[32andBelow]

As soon as you do that you’ll also be paid that way. You sure that’s wise?

Says who? There’s all this made up stuff based on people’s feelings.