August (Q4) 2023

[ChuckNovember]

I did the research so you don't have to:

At PSP, looks like out of the 10 people I analyzed that have been there long enough to be CPC, only 3 were likely washouts. The other 7 have been at PSP their entire career.

At ISP, I looked at 19 people. 6 have only been at ISP. 1 more was at a lower 7 up/down for 8 months so I think they likely hardshipped to ISP because that doesn't seem like enough time to get through the tower and wash on radar and I think if they washed at a 7 tower on LC or something, they wouldn't offer them a 6 tower like ISP was at the time. ....Then we get to the interesting part. The other 12 presumed CPCs are all washouts it appears. ISP is basically where you go when you're from Long Island but can't make it at ZNY. I'd say about half of the 12 washed from ZNY. A lot of the others have taken their shot at JFK/LGA and ended up right back at ISP. One dude has washed at ZNY, EWR, and LGA. I wonder if he is going to try and finish the NYC Metro Pentafecta and go to JFK and N90 next.

nice work! Interesting stuff, especially about ISP.

 

[Acquired Taste]

nice work! Interesting stuff, especially about ISP.

No prob, I was also curious as to how these types of places had no outbound ERRs because it doesn't make a ton of sense to me personally, especially with current hiring practices being the way they are.

 

[CoffeeIV]

This is the first time I've really looked at the ERR demand and some of it is really intriguing. How is ISP, a level 7 in an extremely HCOL area, 94% staffed with zero ERRs on file? Or better yet, how is PSP, level 5 in a place where its probably impossible to find a 2BR apt for under 2k/month, fairly well-staffed with zero ERRs on file?

Kind of bucks the "everyone wants to be in the same top five level 12s" narrative. The answer to our staffing issue might be looking to see what is working for these facilities. Soul_Controller CoffeeIV would love your thoughts on this.

ISP, closest facility New Yorkers can get to NYC without washing at N90/ZNY? Still Long Island. POU is probably too woodsy for New Yorkers (I think its the next close low level facility)

PSP, easiest low level facility near LA and San Diego with no fear of washing at a bigger place?

 

[hpwjuicebox]

Sounds like I should have washed on my last R and hoped for PSP since there is no competition to leave.

 

[ajmezz]

ISP, closest facility New Yorkers can get to NYC without washing at N90/ZNY? Still Long Island. POU is probably too woodsy for New Yorkers (I think its the next close low level facility)

PSP, easiest low level facility near LA and San Diego with no fear of washing at a bigger place?

FRG is somewhere there on Long Island too.

 

[RH316]

ISP, closest facility New Yorkers can get to NYC without washing at N90/ZNY? Still Long Island. POU is probably too woodsy for New Yorkers (I think its the next close low level facility)

PSP, easiest low level facility near LA and San Diego with no fear of washing at a bigger place?

CDW & MMU are only a few miles west of EWR, as the crow flies. The real Jewel of a facility is if you can get to ABE. You get NY locality in PA. Live like a king making $125k plus a year in a super cheap COLA area.

 

[Jake Sully]

Sounds cool until you realize you’re living in Allentown, PA

 

[abc1234]

FRG is somewhere there on Long Island too.

FRG is an absolute fuck show of an airport with an ungodly amount of student pilots. ISP is way more chill and somehow FRG's staffing target is 13 and ISP is 17 despite them both being level 7's.

 

[GoGators]

Sounds cool until you realize you’re living in Allentown, PA

CDW & MMU are only a few miles west of EWR, as the crow flies. The real Jewel of a facility is if you can get to ABE. You get NY locality in PA. Live like a king making $125k plus a year in a super cheap COLA area.

ABE is a great spot. Really good people, great food scene surprisingly, close to PHL/NYC, lots of hiking/trails.

But it's a 7 up/down and the slow days can be brutally slow and boring. Beautiful VFR days could get fun on radar.

But we did have 3 xboxs and play full squads of apex legends or call of duty on our hour on/hour off breaks.

If you're wanting to work traffic, you'll eventually leave.

 

[Move78]

15 years *as a CPC*. so more like seventeen and a half to eighteen years.

So you're hoping we get rid of it?

No I wouldn’t get rid of it but priority considerations or placements are not unanimously popular. People bitching on the internet may want a guaranteed move down the road but there are plenty of receiving facilities out there that don’t want to be forced to take someone against their will.

 

[Soul_Controller]

No I wouldn’t get rid of it but priority considerations or placements are not unanimously popular. People bitching on the internet may want a guaranteed move down the road but there are plenty of receiving facilities out there that don’t want to be forced to take someone against their will.

I got little sympathy for facilties losing their ability to put their thumbs on the scale.

 

[ChuckNovember]

No I wouldn’t get rid of it but priority considerations or placements are not unanimously popular. People bitching on the internet may want a guaranteed move down the road but there are plenty of receiving facilities out there that don’t want to be forced to take someone against their will.

"People bitching on the internet" ...you mean BUEs? At what point is the goal to make dues-paying controllers happy instead of doing the FAAs job for them?

 

[Move78]

"People bitching on the internet" ...you mean BUEs? At what point is the goal to make dues-paying controllers happy instead of doing the FAAs job for them?

My post was outlining the contradicting opinions of said BUEs. Some may want a priority transfer. (The opinion you’ll often see on the message boards)
Some may want a say in who comes onboard cuz maybe mr priority is a lazy sackascam and they already have a buncha those.

 

[Dolan]

My post was outlining the contradicting opinions of said BUEs. Some may want a priority transfer. (The opinion you’ll often see on the message boards)
Some may want a say in who comes onboard cuz maybe mr priority is a lazy sackascam and they already have a buncha those.

Who's put in 15 years at their level 10+ ? Yeah man can't let a single person avoid the popularity contest that getting to any desirable facility is /s

 

[ChuckNovember]

Who's put in 15 years at their level 10+ ? Yeah man can't let a single person avoid the popularity contest that getting to any desirable facility is /s

Also IMO IS the people who actually are scammers would never use this article because it means getting off your ass and starting training again

 

[HurryUpandWait]

Also IMO IS the people who actually are scammers would never use this article because it means getting off your ass and starting training again

I can only imagine that CPC-IT from a 12 being trained at a 7.

 

[Golf delta]

Are there really that many people that are going to uproot their whole family’s life after 15+ years in one spot? Family, friends, homes, kids in school… I can’t imagine it’s a number big enough to make a big difference. If they put in all that time and want to move they should be first in line.

 

[Move78]

Are there really that many people that are going to uproot their whole family’s life after 15+ years in one spot? Family, friends, homes, kids in school… I can’t imagine it’s a number big enough to make a big difference. If they put in all that time and want to move they should be first in line.

They are. There’s not even a line, they just get to go.

 

[CoffeeIV]

Are there really that many people that are going to uproot their whole family’s life after 15+ years in one spot? Family, friends, homes, kids in school… I can’t imagine it’s a number big enough to make a big difference. If they put in all that time and want to move they should be first in line.

I've been shocked by how many controllers put themselves over their kids to chase money.

I also think it's amusing because I know if this happened to some of you, you would be complaining how you got jumped in seniority. Whining about how could NATCA allow such a thing.

 

[ChuckNovember]

I've been shocked by how many controllers put themselves over their kids to chase money.

I also think it's amusing because I know if this happened to some of you, you would be complaining how you got jumped in seniority. Whining about how could NATCA allow such a thing.

The article only applies if you are already at a 10-12