August 2025

[Move78]

You don’t actually know what the number of controllers is that are stuck because many who are don’t even put in ERRs. It’s no small minority either. Especially if you count those that have resigned themselves to never leaving. I know plenty of controllers that have never put in an ERR at my facility because we haven’t released in 7 years. Also with toe new staffing numbers it’ll likely be that long before we’re eligible to release any one.

Personally I’d like everyone’s ERRs to be approved.
But you can’t complain that no one is fighting for requests that don’t exist. Only 7-8% of BUEs have requested transfer. It’s a number that’s hugely over represented on the anonymous complaining pages. The truth is most of the controllers are not seeking transfer. And in many cases around the NAS (depends) you can complain about release or you can complain about 6 day weeks but not both cuz they’re opposites.

46 out of 315 facilities or 14 percent of facilities were eligible to release this last panel. So in actuality the majority of controllers are stuck even if they are content with being at their facility.

Almost the same number of BUEs were allowed to transfer under the new NRP for May (223) as the old NRP (224).

86 percent of controllers didn’t have the option to transfer and that percentage isn’t anything new either.

You’re conflating data. It’s not 86% of controllers it’s 86% of facilities that aren’t adequately staffed enough to lose bodies. Allegedly.

 

[Phillytroll69]

Personally I’d like everyone’s ERRs to be approved.
But you can’t complain that no one is fighting for requests that don’t exist. Only 7-8% of BUEs have requested transfer. It’s a number that’s hugely over represented on the anonymous complaining pages. The truth is most of the controllers are not seeking transfer. And in many cases around the NAS (depends) you can complain about release or you can complain about 6 day weeks but not both cuz they’re opposites.

Almost the same number of BUEs were allowed to transfer under the new NRP for May (223) as the old NRP (224).

You’re conflating data. It’s not 86% of controllers it’s 86% of facilities that aren’t adequately staffed enough to lose bodies. Allegedly.

Id just like swaps to not count as 2 losses lmao

 

[IndiaKilo]

Personally I’d like everyone’s ERRs to be approved.
But you can’t complain that no one is fighting for requests that don’t exist. Only 7-8% of BUEs have requested transfer.

I get you are trying to push a narrative but numerous people from different facilities have posted the same exact point. People aren't putting in pointless paperwork at facilities that are years away from being able to release. 7-8% is no where near the actual percentage of people that want to transfer. If my facility was close to releasing our facility would be over 90% of controllers with paperwork to transfer. It's currently around 10% because people think it's a waste of time to put in paperwork.

 

[Nothanks]

I get you are trying to push a narrative but numerous people from different facilities have posted the same exact point. People aren't putting in pointless paperwork at facilities that are years away from being able to release. 7-8% is no where near the actual percentage of people that want to transfer. If my facility was close to releasing our facility would be over 90% of controllers with paperwork to transfer. It's currently around 10% because people think it's a waste of time to put in paperwork.

Yea I don’t believe only 8% of the workforce wants to move. We all know that’s not true

That doesn’t mean the agency would ever go for some release policy that lets everyone go where they want to be. Some places are well staffed and are very hard to get into.

 

[bravounite33]

I get you are trying to push a narrative but numerous people from different facilities have posted the same exact point. People aren't putting in pointless paperwork at facilities that are years away from being able to release. 7-8% is no where near the actual percentage of people that want to transfer. If my facility was close to releasing our facility would be over 90% of controllers with paperwork to transfer. It's currently around 10% because people think it's a waste of time to put in paperwork.

I think everyone knows it's most likely more than 8% but the data itself doesn't back that up. That's kind of the point being made. People aren't filing the ERRs (because the facility they're at can't release anyways) but without those ERRs in, the agency believes people are happy where they are since they aren't "trying" to transfer by filing ERRs. It's a double edged sword that actually hurts the controllers side as the only way to show the agency that a ton of people aren't happy with their current facility and want to transfer is by filing paperwork, which again is a waste of time since they can't be released anyways. So controllers don't file that paperwork, which then leads the FAA to say "all is good here!" It's a never ending cycle.

The only way to truly throw it back in the FAA's face is to get people to file the ERRs no matter what their staffing is like. At the very least, the data will at least show how many controllers are actually wanting to move (or at least provide a better look at it).

 

[SquawkHijack]

Also NATCA literally negotiated a more liberal release policy on behalf of that minority. At times this will likely come at the expense of the majority

The new national release policy now has two boxes to check instead of one to release anyone, and if you don’t have anybody in training you’re subject to the 85% staffing to target number as per the old release policy. So what the fuck really changed for the better Mr. NATCA is so great?

 

[Nothanks]

The new national release policy now has two boxes to check instead of one to release anyone, and if you don’t have anybody in training you’re subject to the 85% staffing to target number as per the old release policy. So what the fuck really changed for the better Mr. NATCA is so great?

No one is here saying the release policy is “better”

 

[SquawkHijack]

No one is here saying the release policy is “better”

Wtf do you think a more liberal release policy on behalf of a BUE minority means? That they hand out popsicles each quarter? I swear any and every inference goes WAY over your head. 😂

 

[22papa]

The reality is that the current lists are actually great. It just screws a whole generation of controllers in order to fix the problems the FAA created.

 

[Mr.Tickles]

Personally I’d like everyone’s ERRs to be approved.
But you can’t complain that no one is fighting for requests that don’t exist. Only 7-8% of BUEs have requested transfer. It’s a number that’s hugely over represented on the anonymous complaining pages. The truth is most of the controllers are not seeking transfer. And in many cases around the NAS (depends) you can complain about release or you can complain about 6 day weeks but not both cuz they’re opposites.

Almost the same number of BUEs were allowed to transfer under the new NRP for May (223) as the old NRP (224).

You’re conflating data. It’s not 86% of controllers it’s 86% of facilities that aren’t adequately staffed enough to lose bodies. Allegedly.

So what you’re saying is that no one actually knows how many people would be interested in transferring. I’d wager it’s probably around 20 perfect of the work force if not more. Most people I’ve spoken to who want to leave have never put in paperwork because it’s pointless.

Perhaps we should have an organization that represents us actually ask its members directly if they want to transfer. It would take about a week and the union would have a fairly accurate picture of what percent of the workforce wanted to move.

You’re right, I miss spoke. None the less having 86 percent of our facilities being unable to release is unacceptable. It still equates to the majority of controllers being unable to move if they desired too.

 

[bravounite33]

So what you’re saying is that no one actually knows how many people would be interested in transferring. I’d wager it’s probably around 20 perfect of the work force if not more. Most people I’ve spoken to who want to leave have never put in paperwork because it’s pointless.

Perhaps we should have an organization that represents us actually ask its members directly if they want to transfer. It would take about a week and the union would have a fairly accurate picture of what percent of the workforce wanted to move.

You’re right, I miss spoke. None the less having 86 percent of our facilities being unable to release is unacceptable. It still equates to the majority of controllers being unable to move if they desired too.

You're missing the point. The union knows people want to transfer. They don't know exact numbers obviously as plenty of people keep things private and others just threaten moves but won't actually do the move. The problem is the agency and more specifically those at the region or DC level that refuse to believe it since "their data" doesn't show that. If the union does this "survey" and find out 10 out of the 12 facilites at some level 5 tower want to ERR and take that to the FAA, they'll just say "but only 2 people have ERRs in?" THAT is the problem!

Quick example, I've personally heard a GM tell a rep this same thing. When the rep brought it up, the answer given by the GM was "well how can someone ERR if they don't put an ERR in? Everyone would love to win the lottery but if you don't buy a ticket, you can't win right? Anyone can say they want to ERR but obviously they don't want to enough to actually put in the work to do it." I might have misquoted a word or two but that was legit the answer given. That's the type of BS thinking from these higher up managers that run this mess.

 

[PlasticBag12]

You're missing the point. The union knows people want to transfer. They don't know exact numbers obviously as plenty of people keep things private and others just threaten moves but won't actually do the move. The problem is the agency and more specifically those at the region or DC level that refuse to believe it since "their data" doesn't show that. If the union does this "survey" and find out 10 out of the 12 facilites at some level 5 tower want to ERR and take that to the FAA, they'll just say "but only 2 people have ERRs in?" THAT is the problem!

Quick example, I've personally heard a GM tell a rep this same thing. When the rep brought it up, the answer given by the GM was "well how can someone ERR if they don't put an ERR in? Everyone would love to win the lottery but if you don't buy a ticket, you can't win right? Anyone can say they want to ERR but obviously they don't want to enough to actually put in the work to do it." I might have misquoted a word or two but that was legit the answer given. That's the type of BS thinking from these higher up managers that run this mess.

Transferring within a government agency for a specialized career should not be a lottery process. Period.

 

[Mike Kilo]

Would it be possible for us to change the wording so movement to a higher level facility would be career progression? It’s kinda silly that it’s not but I also don’t know all the repercussions it would bring.

 

[SquawkHijack]

Would it be possible for us to change the wording so movement to a higher level facility would be career progression? It’s kinda silly that it’s not but I also don’t know all the repercussions it would bring.

This absolutely needs to change, this alone is holding everyone back. Very little to no potential for career progression because NATCA let the agency exclude FPLs from being legally considered just that.

We should also see a culture of career progression that involves people slowly moving up as they gain more experience throughout their career. Not everyone being stuck for eternity and the agency gets to cherry pick where they place kids off the street with no experience.

 

[CreepyPineapple]

People not putting in ERRs is definitely a problem. I’ve even talked to a couple people in the past who thought they couldn’t even file one if their facility couldn’t release. It would be nice to see some education and encouragement from the union about filing them regardless if your facility can release or not. I always file because you never know when an error could work in your favor.

 

[Phillytroll69]

Transferring within a government agency for a specialized career should not be a lottery process. Period.

It's not, it's based on dynamic data driven decisions. We have 10 A114ers updating this spreadsheet monthly and having a 5 minute teleconference about it. We've made it people's jobs to let you know.

 

[SquawkHijack]

The new national release policy now has two boxes to check instead of one to release anyone, and if you don’t have anybody in training you’re subject to the 85% staffing to target number as per the old release policy. So what the fuck really changed for the better Mr. NATCA is so great?

Move78 How has the release policy improved bud?

 

[Nothanks]

Move78 How has the release policy improved bud?

🤣 can’t let it go. You need to find something that makes you happy

 

[ChuckNovember]

You don’t actually know what the number of controllers is that are stuck because many who are don’t even put in ERRs. It’s no small minority either. Especially if you count those that have resigned themselves to never leaving. I know plenty of controllers that have never put in an ERR at my facility because we haven’t released in 7 years. Also with toe new staffing numbers it’ll likely be that long before we’re eligible to release any one.

46 out of 315 facilities or 14 percent of facilities were eligible to release this last panel. So in actuality the majority of controllers are stuck even if they are content with being at their facility. 86 percent of controllers didn’t have the option to transfer and that percentage isn’t anything new either.

I wrote a program a while ago that pulled all the NCEPT data and shows that as a facility approaches the releasing threshold the number of ERRs spiked to prove that the “ERR demand” spreadsheet is useless. But I’m too lazy to find it because trying to convince these people that the system is anything less than perfect feels like bashing your head against a wall.

You can’t read I don’t think.

Holy shit please tell me you wrote that while distracted on position and you’re not actually that illiterate.

So what you’re saying is that no one actually knows how many people would be interested in transferring. I’d wager it’s probably around 20 perfect of the work force if not more. Most people I’ve spoken to who want to leave have never put in paperwork because it’s pointless.

Perhaps we should have an organization that represents us actually ask its members directly if they want to transfer. It would take about a week and the union would have a fairly accurate picture of what percent of the workforce wanted to move.

You’re right, I miss spoke. None the less having 86 percent of our facilities being unable to release is unacceptable. It still equates to the majority of controllers being unable to move if they desired too.

A systems that prioritized the age of the request (first filed, first served) would fix this. There would be an instantaneous wave of ERRs and all these people in denial of what the general experience has been for post-sequester hires would have their jaws on the floor.

 

[SquawkHijack]

🤣 can’t let it go. You need to find something that makes you happy

Oh really? Considering he trolls people the EXACT same way in another NCEPT thread? You’re shitty at being a troll lol. He’s got his head too far up Nick Daniels’ ass to reply anyway.

You’re welcome to answer the same question. What got better about the release policy?