FAA considering old commercial space for facility consolidation

When the existing centers were planned, id be curious about the underlying reasons for the devious at the time. Choices were made that were the result of a combination of redundancy as well as the technical limitations of the day and I’m curious what the exact mix was. How much was it technical vs redundant. Bc An analog phone system was the bleeding edge of technology back then, now we obviously have advanced in many areas.
A lot of it (Z placement back then in the Cold War days) had to do with nuclear hardening via geographical distancing from any major cities which would be in the crosshairs for a nuclear strike. This is also why the ops floor portion of a Z (and probably high level tracons) is shielded with corrugated alloy for protection against EM radiation (a byproduct of nuclear fission and fusion) as well as common interference. (A lesser but coincidental issue)
 
C90 being unaffected played a big role in keeping operations going at a minimal level in the early days.

Combining a bunch of tinkeytoy approaches into one facility? Fine.

Might even be better if some of the difficult up-downs became tower-only and had a separate TRACON handle approach control.
You are right and the agency saw that too by giving the zau controllers time off awards amd the C90 controllers a commemorative coin.
 
Thats a great move notwithstanding. They can’t staff ZOA bc of Bay Area COL. No one new can really afford it there. ZOA has the most hardships out followed by ZNY I think. It’s skewed by the size of the overall manning but if if that’s hardships how many wash, withdraw, quit etc. it’s the same story at ZNY. If they were to relocate the center to like white plains or somewhere like that, that would make a huge improvement in their ability to get people to happily go there.

ZOA does some interesting stuff but living in Oakland is a hard no for most . if they are going to move the Z’s, they can at least try to move some of the worst to more affordable locales.

It still trips me out how young people choose places like ZiD. ZAU, ZAB, ZMP etc over a place like ZOA. They always claim it's the cost of living that forces them to avoid a beautiful global tourist attraction while opting for the armpits of American. And then get into the armpit and still complain about money. For younger people the Bay Area has anything one could imagine. And, Nothing says "I'm selfish" like hardshipping out of a place like ZOA or ZNY....Like they're impacted more than anyone else.
 
It still trips me out how young people choose places like ZiD. ZAU, ZAB, ZMP etc over a place like ZOA. They always claim it's the cost of living that forces them to avoid a beautiful global tourist attraction while opting for the armpits of American. And then get into the armpit and still complain about money. For younger people the Bay Area has anything one could imagine. And, Nothing says "I'm selfish" like hardshipping out of a place like ZOA or ZNY....Like they're impacted more than anyone else.
You could offer me 100% CIP money at ZOA and I still wouldn't go.
To each their own. Glad you are happy there. It isn't for everyone.
 
It still trips me out how young people choose places like ZiD. ZAU, ZAB, ZMP etc over a place like ZOA. They always claim it's the cost of living that forces them to avoid a beautiful global tourist attraction while opting for the armpits of American. And then get into the armpit and still complain about money. For younger people the Bay Area has anything one could imagine. And, Nothing says "I'm selfish" like hardshipping out of a place like ZOA or ZNY....Like they're impacted more than anyone else.
At first I thought you were being sarcastic, but reading it again I think you’re actually serious… people don’t travel from all over the world to go Oakland. Even the raiders left because it was so shitty.

It still trips me out how young people choose places like ZiD. ZAU, ZAB, ZMP etc over a place like ZOA. They always claim it's the cost of living that forces them to avoid a beautiful global tourist attraction while opting for the armpits of American. And then get into the armpit and still complain about money. For younger people the Bay Area has anything one could imagine. And, Nothing says "I'm selfish" like hardshipping out of a place like ZOA or ZNY....Like they're impacted more than anyone else.
As of March 2026, the median home sale price in Oakland, CA, is approximately $870,000, with homes selling in about 15 days.
 
Do you guys think people in California work in the same city they live in? The city names change like ever 10-30 minutes when you drive around on the highway
 
It still trips me out how young people choose places like ZiD. ZAU, ZAB, ZMP etc over a place like ZOA. They always claim it's the cost of living that forces them to avoid a beautiful global tourist attraction while opting for the armpits of American. And then get into the armpit and still complain about money. For younger people the Bay Area has anything one could imagine. And, Nothing says "I'm selfish" like hardshipping out of a place like ZOA or ZNY....Like they're impacted more than anyone else.
If I were dedicated to the bachelor or DINK life and didn't have any family ties, I'd definitely consider choosing ZOA and get a condo or small townhouse.

However, I am from Chicago, have family in Chicago, wife is from Chicago, I enjoy my 2.8k sqft paid-off home with a yard the kids can play in, and a relatively short commute to work. So ZAU it is.
 
If I were dedicated to the bachelor or DINK life and didn't have any family ties, I'd definitely consider choosing ZOA and get a condo or small townhouse.

However, I am from Chicago, have family in Chicago, wife is from Chicago, I enjoy my 2.8k sqft paid-off home with a yard the kids can play in, and a relatively short commute to work. So ZAU it is.
Thumbs Ok GIF
 
Do you guys think people in California work in the same city they live in? The city names change like ever 10-30 minutes when you drive around on the highway
So when it comes to the Bay Area, you’re probably not going to be crossing the bridge to Oakland on a regular basis. Traffic is insane. It can take hours. Oakland is the wrong side of the bay for sure, you’ll almost certainly have to live on the side you work, which does limit your options more.
 
ZOA is not in Oakland, it is in Fremont, which is about halfway between Oakland and San Jose, and directly across from Palo Alto. Not a great place if you want to live in San Francisco itself, but I doubt a lot of people actually want to do that anyway. I'm guessing, for most of us in any facility, shift work avoids most of the really bad traffic unless you're working a non-op staff type position.

Remember, Centers are named after the closest major airport, not actual town they are in. Do you guys think people working in Atlanta center have to drive through downtown Atlanta every day? It's out the middle of fucking nowhere. lol.
 
So when it comes to the Bay Area, you’re probably not going to be crossing the bridge to Oakland on a regular basis. Traffic is insane. It can take hours. Oakland is the wrong side of the bay for sure, you’ll almost certainly have to live on the side you work, which does limit your options more.
I’m not super familiar with the bay but I am with California. It’s just a way of life you have some sort of commute. Isn’t ZOA near a BART station. I had a buddy rebate there and he was saying you could actually take transit. Not totally sure.

In this specific case I don’t think building a super facility with ZOA and NorCal is a bad idea.

I just find the immediate California is bad arguments tiring.
 
I’m not super familiar with the bay but I am with California. It’s just a way of life you have some sort of commute. Isn’t ZOA near a BART station. I had a buddy rebate there and he was saying you could actually take transit. Not totally sure.

In this specific case I don’t think building a super facility with ZOA and NorCal is a bad idea.

I just find the immediate California is bad arguments tiring.
For tower AG, it is. Cost of living increases in most of the western United States has made it unaffordable to be stuck in a low level tower long term although it’s not exclusive to California.
 
Remember, Centers are named after the closest major airport, not actual town they are in. Do you guys think people working in Atlanta center have to drive through downtown Atlanta every day? It's out the middle of fucking nowhere. lol.
Oddly enough, two center facility identifiers are actually set by the actual town they’re in, (on a random note). ZAU = Aurora, IL; ZOB = Oberlin, OH.
 
I’m not super familiar with the bay but I am with California. It’s just a way of life you have some sort of commute. Isn’t ZOA near a BART station. I had a buddy rebate there and he was saying you could actually take transit. Not totally sure.

In this specific case I don’t think building a super facility with ZOA and NorCal is a bad idea.

I just find the immediate California is bad arguments tiring.
California immediately gets a bad rap from Midwesterners (I know because I’m one).

What most of us don’t realize is, not every square inch of this earth is slower, quiet semi-rural suburbs and state/county roads. I’ve been to California, it’s very cool and a place all its own. That said it has its own characteristics, traffic being one of them but that should be expected with the population. A lot of people in the Midwest like to talk without ever venturing from their home flyover state.
 
The fact that it’s so unaffordable basically destroys whatever stupid story people tell themselves about why it sucks. I grew up there and I actually wouldn’t move back because I wouldn’t want to spend that much on housing. But it’s not because the quality of life sucked. You could do literally fucking anything there.
 
The fact that it’s so unaffordable basically destroys whatever stupid story people tell themselves about why it sucks. I grew up there and I actually wouldn’t move back because I wouldn’t want to spend that much on housing. But it’s not because the quality of life sucked. You could do literally fucking anything there.
This is what I gathered there as well, having visited with an outside looking in perspective. Expensive, but literally anything you want to do is within reach.
 
I’m not super familiar with the bay but I am with California. It’s just a way of life you have some sort of commute. Isn’t ZOA near a BART station. I had a buddy rebate there and he was saying you could actually take transit. Not totally sure.

In this specific case I don’t think building a super facility with ZOA and NorCal is a bad idea.

I just find the immediate California is bad arguments tiring.
California isn’t “good” or “bad” it’s just profoundly more expensive than just about any other place. For a profession that’s taken a 30% functional pay cut due to inflation and a decline in purchasing power that’s a terrible combo. There are also huge gaps at facilities like that, older people who got the real estate deals of a generation from 2008-2010 and those who will struggle to get out of renting. If pay kept up, California wouldn’t be so bad. I hear the traffic is fun, some of the facilities have great management but you’re getting body blows financially, and it’s worse the lower level you get to. The cost of living is the primary reason everyone I know whose left CA facilities has cited.

Forget ZOA for a moment, the real struggles are the people at like level 6 Palo Alto and level 7 OAK.
 
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