If I ran the FAA How I could fix the Training/Staffing Problem

[GulfCharlie]

One big issue I see with the MMAC is that the both the director and deputy director don't seem to have any Air Traffic background. If you go into eLMS and click on the LMS drop down menu at the top of the page, then click on "Organizational Info". I was able to use my instructors name (at the academy) and work my way up to director/deputy director. I'd rather not name names on here but reading both of their background information shows that neither have any background in Air Traffic Control. Meaning they are probably relying on their subordinates who do have experience to guide them. IMO this needs to be looked at and we should at the very least have a Deputy Director with Air Traffic experience so they can make suggestions to change things for the better.

If we had someone there with Air Traffic knowledge they would be able to observe what's happening at the academy and help fix it. We need to change the grading on the PAs (or PVs if you're an old person) to not ding people for every little mistake they make. If there is a loss of separation or something dangerous, sure. Writing the callsign down wrong because it's a shitty computer voice and subsequently calling the aircraft the wrong callsign a couple times should not sink someone's chances of being a controller IMO.

This is an agency wide problem, especially in D.C. Controllers need to run the agency again...

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

This is an agency wide problem, especially in D.C. Controllers need to run the agency again...

Wait so we can complain about staffing and day we want to pull all Article 114 reps but now we want controllers running MMAC and the whole Agency??? We really are talking out of both sides of our mouths here

We need to change the grading on the PAs (or PVs if you're an old person) to not ding people for every little mistake they make. If there is a loss of separation or something dangerous, sure. Writing the callsign down wrong because it's a shitty computer voice and subsequently calling the aircraft the wrong callsign a couple times should not sink someone's chances of being a controller IMO.

They already lowered the passing grade to 70%. We don't need to go any lower.

 

[the inquirer]

Wait so we can complain about staffing and day we want to pull all Article 114 reps but now we want controllers running MMAC and the whole Agency??? We really are talking out of both sides of our mouths here

YES!! Just because the agency has mismanaged a lot of things over the past numerous decades, does not mean we cannot have a desire for things to be better. Of course, being realistic, it won't happen, but one can dream and that's not a bad thing.

 

[AS88]

They already lowered the passing grade to 70%. We don't need to go any lower.

Then don't lower it, just stop making every tiny mistake count against you.

 

[32andBelow]

The only thing I got from that article is that Rep Tom Cole is retarded and is speaking with about a non-issue he has zero understanding of. In summary: the FAA got AUS a tower sim in an attempt to cover their asses in the future after buddy tried to put 2 together and now Tom thinks they are going close the FAA Academy and Boeing (who has a presence at Tinker) isn't going to like that very much.

Having CTI skip the academy will massively reduce it tho

Wait so we can complain about staffing and day we want to pull all Article 114 reps but now we want controllers running MMAC and the whole Agency??? We really are talking out of both sides of our mouths here

It would be your job not a scam detail

 

[Acquired Taste]

Having CTI skip the academy will massively reduce it tho

I doubt it. How many kids are still going CTI after they made it a complete waste of money 10 years ago? Now after the CTI programs have been completely decimated, they decided it's finally the right time to direct hire them? If anything, it would just allow them to continue running the academy at max capacity for the OTS folks while giving a small staffing boost to the NAS through the few CTI hires that go direct to facility.

 

[32andBelow]

I doubt it. How many kids are still going CTI after they made it a complete waste of money 10 years ago? Now after the CTI programs have been completely decimated, they decided it's finally the right time to direct hire them? If anything, it would just allow them to continue running the academy at max capacity for the OTS folks while giving a small staffing boost to the NAS through the few CTI hires that go direct to facility.

Well they are making it not a waste of money anymore so I reckon enrollment will go up.

 

[GulfCharlie]

Wait so we can complain about staffing and day we want to pull all Article 114 reps but now we want controllers running MMAC and the whole Agency??? We really are talking out of both sides of our mouths here

People that hit 56 need something to do too!

 

[FlightOfTheShortGuy]

You just tell them they’ll never be cpc?

I have been saying this for awhile now. Why have the tower trainee who certified on every position except local wash out and get fired? Why not just pay him D2 or D3 or whatever? Maybe they can reopen training down the line. I’m sure there’s a lot of people who would work clearance and ground for 70k at some facilities.

 

[32andBelow]

I have been saying this for awhile now. Why have the tower trainee who certified on every position except local wash out and get fired? Why not just pay him D2 or D3 or whatever? Maybe they can reopen training down the line. I’m sure there’s a lot of people who would work clearance and ground for 70k at some facilities.

Cus it’s not efficient. If the dude with local bangs out the dude only with ground doesn’t help and you still need OT. Now if you wanna come up with something where you take like a 6-12 month training pause and then start again that could work ok maybe.

 

[SquawkHijack]

The fix is not simple.

Upward mobility. Guaranteed career plan that gets you making from level 5 pay to level 12 (if desired) in 8 years or less. Hard to staff towers? GUARANTEE an escape to desired location and a timeline. This also let's you know when you'll need people instead of I just out in for a sup bid. (STRUCTURE LIKE GUAM BID, BUT FOR BAD FACILITIES HERE)

Get the bad facilities I'm shape (n90 seems to be improving greatly) but there are others. Nobody should have to wait YEARS to START training (pandemics aside) Make raises timed base-these delays (including pandemic) make it impossible to get a performance based raise. This kills tsp lifetime growth, delays your high three etc. Complete and utter disgust at this performance based system....that uh you can't perform for until we say it's OK? There needs to be a back up (like zny put position) at all facilities.

I'm excited for direct hiring with cti..BUT once again there is no standard. Make basics and map available for everyone free online. I'll narrate the powerpoints. If someone says they know it, make that part of the application.

Retention-Why aren't there more people in high up positions with qualified experience.
Things you can't do-go from a level 5 vfr tower to a level 12 tracon.

Things you can do- (if you know people)
Go from level 5 vfr tower to management at level 12 tracon
Go from level 5 vfr tower to traffic management at level 12 tracon

People want money and have no other way to get there. This is a huge shortcut around experience and ncept requirements.

Partially union aimed but hold people accountable-every detail should be required to maintain currency. People that haven't worked traffic in over 365 days are now a support role and should be taken off the numbers.


The hardest, staffed facilities get the lowest scorers and last picks for a reason. Some sort of living stipend or something might get people above 70.00% in okc to the right facilities.

For example- you live in Florida and went to embry riddle. You have a natural skill for atc and get 98% at the academy. Your family and support system is next door to ZMA.

You get the top of the list and go to Texas because it's closest.

Who goes to ACK, FAI, LA, Oakland, NY? The bottom of the list and volunteers. These facilities and trainees are set up for failure.

100% this. I’d like to emphasize the first and last points because they’re two of the biggest problems that HR and NCEPT panel can’t seem to get right.

It’s a given that OTS hires won’t get higher than a lvl 8 facility so that means current employees are the only candidates to move up to those 9-12’s. Why not just let that happen and allow people to further their career and build their TSP?? Instead we lock everyone down with these absolute bullshit NCEPT rules and make movements very difficult.

And sending the worst grads to certain facilities on a serial basis really sets the CICs up for failure too. A newly certified shitbag has a deal working local and the IC is in the same hot water all because they suck and got recommended anyway because it’s a slower facility and that’s just what happens.

Shits busted.

You want to fix people staying in one location get rid of the paypands and every where pays the same just different cost of living difference. I know this is something people at high levels would hate, but that is why most people move is the money from talking to people.

Do that and most if not all of your Z’s would have somewhere around ZERO controllers…

The positive part of your input is that people would for sure move, just to all different jobs outside the FAA.

Or any employees

And when has that EVER been talked about… ?

Well they are making it not a waste of money anymore so I reckon enrollment will go up.

CTI goes to college and gets in thousands of dollars in debt to accomplish the same thing an MMAC grad off the street can debt free, is the CTI still not seeming like a waste of money or am I missing something here?

 

[bravoindia]

CTI grads always sucked

This is the dumbest take on this site.

 

[Soul_Controller]

This is the dumbest take on this site.

It's statistically true if you take "sucked" to mean not any better than OTS hires

 

[bravoindia]

It's statistically true if you take "sucked" to mean not any better than OTS hires

It would be nice if the union collaborated with management to create a legitimate curriculum and gave any cti school that participated a benefit or direct hire option if any student graduates with an 80% or whatever number you feel adequate to go to a facility but all the CTI schools teach different shit.

 

[KP-ATC]

It's statistically true if you take "sucked" to mean not any better than OTS hires

Lots of OTS hires went to CTI schools.

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

It would be nice if the union collaborated with management to create a legitimate curriculum and gave any cti school that participated a benefit or direct hire option if any student graduates with an 80% or whatever number you feel adequate to go to a facility but all the CTI schools teach different shit.

That's literally what they are setting up right now

 

[bravoindia]

That's literally what they are setting up right now

Yes sort of, but they’re not at least not yet going to schools forcing a uniform across the board minimum standard to teach. Honestly each school should be doing the recurrent training elms I mean those are a good start of solid content that involves the basics. And it’s “collaborative”

 

[twn]

Yes sort of, but they’re not at least not yet going to schools forcing a uniform across the board minimum standard to teach. Honestly each school should be doing the recurrent training elms I mean those are a good start of solid content that involves the basics. And it’s “collaborative”

Great, so we can indoctrinate cti students on how important TMU thinks they are.

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

Yes sort of, but they’re not at least not yet going to schools forcing a uniform across the board minimum standard to teach.

As I said, this is literally what they are doing.

Move to increase air traffic controllers through college programs - Lynnwood Times

"The FAA is authorizing institutions in the AT-CTI program to provide the same thorough curriculum offered at the FAA Air Traffic Controller Academy. After graduating from one of the eligible schools, new hires can immediately begin localized training at an air traffic facility. These graduates still must pass the Air Traffic Skills Assessment (ATSA) exam and meet medical and security requirements.    

Colleges will apply to join the Enhanced AT-CTI program in April 2024, and the FAA will then sign partnership agreements with the selected institutions that incorporate the new curriculum. The FAA has now surveyed which institutions in the AT-CTI program want to and can incorporate the new enhancements for the 2024-25 school year.

To ensure the highest quality of the Enhanced AT-CTI graduating students, the FAA has already provided guidance on academy criteria and coursework and will oversee all program requirements. These schools will follow all the technology, testing, oversight, and participation requirements of the new Enhanced AT-CTI program."

 

[32andBelow]

I haven’t seen them say how long this program is supposed to take.