If I ran the FAA How I could fix the Training/Staffing Problem

[Mike Kilo]

I haven’t seen them say how long this program is supposed to take.

Colleges aren’t going to lose out on $$ by letting it be 3 months lol. Probably gonna be a year program at a minimum.

 

[32andBelow]

Colleges aren’t going to lose out on $$ by letting it be 3 months lol. Probably gonna be a year program at a minimum.

Well if they make it some 8 hour a day intensive thing it’ll be full time and pricy. But I agree it will likely be 2 semesters. In the past it was 4-8 semesters but the aviation course worth was a smaller percentage of your day. The problem with colleges is they are hesitant to waive all the other crap like biology and music appreciation.

 

[MJ]

That isn't a novel concept. They already do one off programs for things like coding bootcamps. Not everything is a full degree program.

 

[KP-ATC]

As I said, this is literally what they are doing.

Move to increase air traffic controllers through college programs - Lynnwood Times

"The FAA is authorizing institutions in the AT-CTI program to provide the same thorough curriculum offered at the FAA Air Traffic Controller Academy. After graduating from one of the eligible schools, new hires can immediately begin localized training at an air traffic facility. These graduates still must pass the Air Traffic Skills Assessment (ATSA) exam and meet medical and security requirements.    

Colleges will apply to join the Enhanced AT-CTI program in April 2024, and the FAA will then sign partnership agreements with the selected institutions that incorporate the new curriculum. The FAA has now surveyed which institutions in the AT-CTI program want to and can incorporate the new enhancements for the 2024-25 school year.

To ensure the highest quality of the Enhanced AT-CTI graduating students, the FAA has already provided guidance on academy criteria and coursework and will oversee all program requirements. These schools will follow all the technology, testing, oversight, and participation requirements of the new Enhanced AT-CTI program."

Great idea. Maybe they can call it the MARC school.

 

[Somenewguy]

As I said, this is literally what they are doing.

Move to increase air traffic controllers through college programs - Lynnwood Times

"The FAA is authorizing institutions in the AT-CTI program to provide the same thorough curriculum offered at the FAA Air Traffic Controller Academy. After graduating from one of the eligible schools, new hires can immediately begin localized training at an air traffic facility. These graduates still must pass the Air Traffic Skills Assessment (ATSA) exam and meet medical and security requirements.    

Colleges will apply to join the Enhanced AT-CTI program in April 2024, and the FAA will then sign partnership agreements with the selected institutions that incorporate the new curriculum. The FAA has now surveyed which institutions in the AT-CTI program want to and can incorporate the new enhancements for the 2024-25 school year.

To ensure the highest quality of the Enhanced AT-CTI graduating students, the FAA has already provided guidance on academy criteria and coursework and will oversee all program requirements. These schools will follow all the technology, testing, oversight, and participation requirements of the new Enhanced AT-CTI program."

I don't know if this deserves its own thread but it looks like enhanced CTI will be able to go straight to FCT towers. Which I'm guessing will mean fully staffing all FCTs.

 

[BDUB]

I don't know if this deserves its own thread but it looks like enhanced CTI will be able to go straight to FCT towers. Which I'm guessing will mean fully staffing all FCTs.

If this is true it might be the smartest thing I’ve ever heard the FAA do. Staff the shit contract facilities and make those CTI kids hate it there and want to move anywhere in the US with the FAA. Then the shit FAA places get staffed and the FAA looks like a hero for getting people stuck in their shithole facilities and not contract facilities. 😂

 

[32andBelow]

I don't know if this deserves its own thread but it looks like enhanced CTI will be able to go straight to FCT towers. Which I'm guessing will mean fully staffing all FCTs.

Why wouldn’t anyone do that when you could go to a center or FAA tower?

 

[Somenewguy]

You get hired in weeks instead of years? Most people can't afford to not work while they wait. Then you apply and still get in the FAA when the time comes and you like what facility they're offering.

 

[Mike Kilo]

Why wouldn’t anyone do that when you could go to a center or FAA tower?

Maybe “cuz” they get 68,000 applicants and then hire a thousand or two? People age out, don’t have a job and any experience in the field is better than none, etc etc.

 

[32andBelow]

Maybe “cuz” they get 68,000 applicants and then hire a thousand or two? People age out, don’t have a job and any experience in the field is better than none, etc etc.

This is about enhanced CTI

 

[Sassyquatch]

This is about enhanced CTI

It also gives people an opportunity to choose exactly where they want to work instead of picking from a random list of facilities. If this was an option for me 4 years ago, I could've chosen a contract tower 5 minutes away from where my family lived & where I grew up vs. 2,000 miles away.

 

[32andBelow]

It also gives people an opportunity to choose exactly where they want to work instead of picking from a random list of facilities. If this was an option for me 4 years ago, I could've chosen a contract tower 5 minutes away from where my family lived & where I grew up vs. 2,000 miles away.

What does the CTI have to do with it tho? Couldn’t contract towers always hire this way if they wanted to? Or was there an FAA regulation preventing it?

 

[Sassyquatch]

What does the CTI have to do with it tho? Couldn’t contract towers always hire this way if they wanted to? Or was there an FAA regulation preventing it?

I believe you needed a CTO for a year in order to apply to FCT. I think maybe one CTI school actually gave you a CTO at the end but most didn't.

 

[32andBelow]

I believe you needed a CTO for a year in order to apply to FCT. I think maybe one CTI school actually gave you a CTO at the end but most didn't.

But was that a regulation or just what the FCTs required?

 

[Sassyquatch]

But was that a regulation or just what the FCTs required?

No idea

 

[Mike Kilo]

This is about enhanced CTI

And you think every enhanced CTI graduate is going to get an offer for the FAA? Right…

 

[Somenewguy]

What does the CTI have to do with it tho? Couldn’t contract towers always hire this way if they wanted to? Or was there an FAA regulation preventing it?

14 CFR § 65.39 - Practical experience requirements: Facility rating.

www.law.cornell.edu

This was the old regulation they're going to bypass. 6mo was a requirement.

 

[ATCiscool]

The sim part is so right it hurts. We can’t retain a training contractor long enough to do anything about it, and we have a 0 percent chance of being able to release a CPC to build sims. I can only tell a trainee so many times that that won’t work in July. I need to show them.


I feel this as someone at FAI. We have a robust GA aviation community but can’t do anything about it. I know many people who would jump at the opportunity to try but we can’t hire directly.

Why don't they build sims that can be self-serve and teaches with bots? Like a game. Seems like every facility has issues with OTJIs for sims.

 

[bradlutz]

Why don't they build sims that can be self-serve and teaches with bots? Like a game. Seems like every facility has issues with OTJIs for sims.

So many reasons. First off being that the simulation program is integrated directly with STARS so 0% chance the FAA is going to mess with it. Even if Raytheon could do it it would be expensive. Second the sim dosnt fly the planes like they would actually fly. You can massage it a little if you’re a really good sim pilot and make it feel closer to reality. Last I care enough to type out is that ATC is an apprenticeship. You can’t teach yourself ATC. No amount of bot sims will make you any good at the job. Maybe they could make you faster at the keyboard or at scanning but you need a senior controller to show you and teach you hands on.

 

[ATCiscool]

So many reasons. First off being that the simulation program is integrated directly with STARS so 0% chance the FAA is going to mess with it. Even if Raytheon could do it it would be expensive. Second the sim dosnt fly the planes like they would actually fly. You can massage it a little if you’re a really good sim pilot and make it feel closer to reality. Last I care enough to type out is that ATC is an apprenticeship. You can’t teach yourself ATC. No amount of bot sims will make you any good at the job. Maybe they could make you faster at the keyboard or at scanning but you need a senior controller to show you and teach you hands on.

Yea, I'm 100% with you on the apprenticeship: plugging in and shadow. Since sims help reduce certify time and every facility has issues with contract instructors and hard to take sr controllers off seat to help with training with sims, I was thinking of ways to make sim itself self-serve.

Overall, just trying to think, what are ways to decrease certify times.