If I ran the FAA How I could fix the Training/Staffing Problem

[32andBelow]

Yea, I'm 100% with you on the apprenticeship: plugging in and shadow. Since sims help reduce certify time and every facility has issues with contract instructors and hard to take sr controllers off seat to help with training with sims, I was thinking of ways to make sim itself self-serve.

Overall, just trying to think, what are ways to decrease certify times.

I’ve always wondered if they got rid of the academy how much could they increase the trainer staffing at every facility.

 

[ManBearPig]

I’ve always wondered if they got rid of the academy how much could they increase the trainer staffing at every facility.

Uhhhh basically 0. All of the sim instructors are retired FAA controllers.

 

[32andBelow]

Uhhhh basically 0. All of the sim instructors are retired FAA controllers.

Yah they’d work for the facilities instead and train on the serial airspace

 

[KiloZulu]

Yah they’d work for the facilities instead and train on the serial airspace

Is the backlog at centers usually caused by contractor staffing? First I've heard of that

 

[wrench978]

Is the backlog at centers usually caused by contractor staffing? First I've heard of that

ZSU isnt like most centers, but yeah. Class size/Instructor availability can cause delays. We also have had backlogs on the floor caused by pumping classes through. We only have 4 Enroute sectors, and from 7 or 8pm to 9:30-10:30 am they are all combined. we typically run 2 scopes during the day, and only run 4 during the season, which is now.

 

[32andBelow]

Is the backlog at centers usually caused by contractor staffing? First I've heard of that

I’m talking about expanding it and just teaching initial on their real airspace

 

[bradlutz]

Yea, I'm 100% with you on the apprenticeship: plugging in and shadow. Since sims help reduce certify time and every facility has issues with contract instructors and hard to take sr controllers off seat to help with training with sims, I was thinking of ways to make sim itself self-serve.

Overall, just trying to think, what are ways to decrease certify times.

I’m at a hard staffed facility. I think about it all the time. I just don’t see a way to fix it without CPCs or some way to get retired controllers to come back as a training staffer at the facility.

I’m talking about expanding it and just teaching initial on their real airspace

I’m with you on this. I’m tired of getting trainees that have never opened a 7110. We should just throw out the sim program at the academy and teach a real basics course and then sim at the facility on the airspace you will actually be working.

 

[CHALUPE71]

I’m with you on this. I’m tired of getting trainees that have never opened a 7110. We should just throw out the sim program at the academy and teach a real basics course and then sim at the facility on the airspace you will actually be working.

My facility no longer has physical copies of the .65, except one that is in the managers office. So I can't get on my trainee about opening it anymore.

 

[GulfCharlie]

My facility no longer has physical copies of the .65, except one that is in the managers office. So I can't get on my trainee about opening it anymore.

I am, with some degree of certainty, almost positive that if you ask for a paper copy that they are required to give you one. There is something somewhere that if requested they are required to furnish you with it, I know it was not in the contract but maybe some training order. Honestly it eludes me but I know I have seen it.

 

[ATCiscool]

I’ve always wondered if they got rid of the academy how much could they increase the trainer staffing at every facility.

Interesting point. I assume not much tbh unfortunately.. cuz here is my thinking:
- You'd have trainees moving for their facility w/o knowing if this job is really for them or not
- Academy rootes these ^ trainees out vs now the facility has to do so
- Academy already has the real estate of classroom and sims (even if old as shit) to train. If we increase trainees at each facility, now we have a new problem of how to manage more influx of trainees
- Academy as some X instructors to each all trainees. If we knix it, then you'd need some Y number of total instructors at all facilities and i'd bet Y is larger than X, so based on the whole cost/benefit analysis they always refer to, it wouldn't make sense

Even with all this, in an ideal world, if trainees can be vetted, have basic knowledge, instructor costs were low, and they wanted to be full-time instructors after retirement, I think it would make sense.

Ionno, my thinking could be off too ofc.

 

[SquawkHijack]

Diversity Training Goes Too Far -- Faa To Pay Workers Who Suffered After Anti-Harassment Program | The Seattle Times

 

[byoungblood]

Is the backlog at centers usually caused by contractor staffing? First I've heard of that

Not explicitly, but there have been periods in the past where money has caused them to have to cut hours with the contractors, making some part time, limiting how many students can run through a class, if they can run classes at night, etc...

Though it does seem that the current problem is just getting enough bodies through the door, period.

 

[Tom H]

I know this could go sideways quick, but lets give it a shot.
Lots of upper Management lurk here, Im retired FAA ATC Enroute/Terminal Controller,
This could be a productive way to get your voice heard.
(IF YOU RAN THE FAA HOW WOULD YOU FIX THE TRAINING/STAFFING/GETTING STUCK IN LOWER LEVEL FACILITIES)

I will kick it off:
If I ran the FAA I would totally revamp the OKC training/hiring process.
Lets take Enroute first. Lets say we need to staff ZOB they need 20 new CPC'S.
I revamp the Academy so that ZOB airspace and procedures are taught from day 1. No more Aero Center or Non Radar crap. Lets get down to business.
Bring in at least 3 CPC'S from ZOB and several retired ZOB controllers as instructors. 6 month detail for all instructors. or rotate CPC's from ZOB shorter duration.
Start selecting off the hiring list. Require new hires to sign a 5 year commitment to ZOB, if you withdraw from training or try to relocate in the 5 year window, you owe ZOB $10K.
select 40 applicants. Train the Developmental in their assigned area they will work at.
Train at the Academy until the student could walk into the center and certify on the D side in 1 month. The facility takes it from there.
this is the Enroute training plan in a nutshell.
Training failures may be offered a Lower level Terminal in the Boston area only.
You could run this model with other Centers at the Academy at the same time!

Please lets keep it productive, No bashing others (ME) LOL. FAA, Union, Trainee's, ect.

Hard to do the rotating in of CPC's when facilities are short staffed to begin with. Might be easier to just take the students to the facility instead of OKC. The washout rate at the facilities is going to skyrocket, though.

Taking people from Enhanced CTI programs is a decent first step. The only problem now is that you have people going to towers and centers with even less experience and the training program has to change with that in mind.

The academy pass rates are going to go down as the CTI students go straight into facilities. They propped the pass numbers for the enroute portion up by at least 10% if not more. I know as an instructor at the academy, we looked at CTI students asa having a huge head start on people off the street.

Why not just go to an approach where every facility can scout all of the incoming newbies and offer contracts to them based on any skills they may have. We could have a "Draft". This could also lead to "Free Agents" getting offered larger contracts because they have proven skills that rookies don't.

If I weren't retired, id be looking for an agent quick!

 

[GMX]

Why not just go to an approach where every facility can scout all of the incoming newbies and offer contracts to them based on any skills they may have. We could have a "Draft". This could also lead to "Free Agents" getting offered larger contracts because they have proven skills that rookies don't.

If I weren't retired, id be looking for an agent quick!

So like...a merit system?

Not really a thing in these modern times.

 

[Whiskey Charlie]

Hard to do the rotating in of CPC's when facilities are short staffed to begin with. Might be easier to just take the students to the facility instead of OKC. The washout rate at the facilities is going to skyrocket, though.

Taking people from Enhanced CTI programs is a decent first step. The only problem now is that you have people going to towers and centers with even less experience and the training program has to change with that in mind.

The academy pass rates are going to go down as the CTI students go straight into facilities. They propped the pass numbers for the enroute portion up by at least 10% if not more. I know as an instructor at the academy, we looked at CTI students asa having a huge head start on people off the street.

It’s fairly common for CTI to be towards the bottom of the class, at least for terminal. I don’t know much about the CTI programs but the few in my class that graduated them were at the bottom. I wouldn’t say it’s a head start a lot of the time.

Plenty of people also argue that some military controllers don’t have a head start either such as those working primarily helicopter traffic.

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

Let's not lump all the CTI programs in as one because there is a VAST difference between UND/Beaver and Vaughn/Southern New Hampshire and other online CTI schools.

 

[Mike Kilo]

Let's not lump all the CTI programs in as one because there is a VAST difference between UND/Beaver and Vaughn/Southern New Hampshire and other online CTI schools.

Can confirm. My brother did Vaughn and it was online, multiple choice straight from the academy material. A joke.

 

[KP-ATC]

Let's not lump all the CTI programs in as one because there is a VAST difference between UND/Beaver and Vaughn/Southern New Hampshire and other online CTI schools.

SNHU is out of the aviation game